Comments Thread For: Pacquiao-Marquez Trilogy Eyed For November, Says Arum

[LeadUppercut]

contrary to what people say, i dont think this could have been a good fight...even at 135

JMM has shown major slippage and even at lightweight, where he was stunned by Juan Diaz and buckled by Katsidis, he would get worked by PAC

That was really my point when I said that this is " yet other example of how it could have been a good fight, if Pac had fought an opponent who was on top of his game and at his best weight ".

2008 at 130, woulda been great.

You're right, JMM has slipped, but I would probably still give Marquez the edge over Manny if they fought at 135, even now. I just think he's got Pac's number, and still has enough in the tank to counter and outwork him.

Manny would not have that significant size advantage like he would at 147, or even 140, and he simply couldn't open up like he did against Clottey/Marg or he gets toasted.

That two-handed punching style has never worked against Marquez.

This is not a trilogy fight, just a payday for Marquez, and yet another win for Pac against a guy who used to be good.

[LeadUppercut]

Don't get me wrong bro, I'm not saying DLH wasn't weight drained. He WAS weight drained.

But seriously, people talk like Pac was the cherry picker in that fight.

No way, Hoya was the cherry-picker.

Thats what I meant when I said this.....

"that was a b1tch move by Hoya, and yes it backfired, and yes Manny was superb"

But when I said this.....

" but dude, you wanna see me work the bag "

I meant that Pac should not be given too much credit for that fight.

Let's face it, Hoya was a punching bag, and nothing more.

[ADP02]

You're argument doesn't have any merit, since PAC vs JMM 2. PAC hasn't faced another counter-puncher, PAC hasn't faced anybody with the actual head movement, PAC hasn't faced ANYBODY with JMM heart.

So when you say Mosley had problem finding Mora or PBF, imaging what's gonna happened when he faces PAC, who's been picking apart flat footed fighters with ease.

STOP trying to justify the Mosley fight, be a boxing fan, not a Bob Arum fan.

What you say may be true, somewhat, BUT this is NOT the same Marquez, like I have already stated. So that is why my statement DOES have merit. You think this is the same Marquez that fought Manny back in 2004? 2008? No way!

PLUS: What has Marquez done at 140+? Nothing!

Marquez, while defeating guys like Juan Diaz at the lower weights, had to dig really deep to beat Diaz. Marquez is getting older and seems to have come down a notch. While Manny has continued to improve and impress at the higher weight divisions. Therefore, I see Manny sparking Marquez.


Mosley vs Manny:
DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!!! I'm not here trying to justify that fight. I said it even before it was made that I hoped it didn't happen. What I have said is that Mosley is still a more dangerous opponent for Manny than Marquez would be. The Marquez fight will still bring in interest as a trilogy fight but not because people really think that Marquez has a good chance to win because he doesn't!

I told you that Manny should dominate (against Mosley) but I still see Manny getting hit. That is why the stronger, more powerful Mosley still has a chance to pull an upset. Not Marquez!

[FrankieClutch]

No way, Hoya was the cherry-picker.

Thats what I meant when I said this.....

"that was a b1tch move by Hoya, and yes it backfired, and yes Manny was superb"

But when I said this.....

" but dude, you wanna see me work the bag "

I meant that Pac should not be given too much credit for that fight.

Let's face it, Hoya was a punching bag, and nothing more.

Well said.

[Vasyl’s dad]

You can do as you please but numbers had nothing to do with them being THE guys to beat at WW. THE guys people bashed Floyd for "ducking" so he fought both and STILL didn't please people. End of story

Even when he wanted to fight Cotto at JWW and Bob wouldn't let him people STILL bashed him for not fighting Cotto at JWW and WW..... You cant please everyone. Just like Pac, you still cant justify Clottey, Margarito and now Mosley in the time frame BOB and Pac choose to fight them. But like I said you cant please everyone. So what do we get Floyd beating the #1 WW and going on vacation while Pac fighting has beens on non winning streaks for over 2 years! You cant please everyone right???? It's what ever....

and Calzaghe.......? Calzaghe who?

So what you're really saying is, Floyd picked a convenient time to move up to welter when the "top" fighters, weren't all that great.

I know,

many of us have said the same thing for years. Then, when the division got hot,

he bounced.

We already knew that.

[WESS]

So what you're really saying is, Floyd picked a convenient time to move up to welter when the "top" fighters, weren't all that great.

I know,

many of us have said the same thing for years. Then, when the division got hot,

he bounced.

We already knew that.

I wont argue that Floyd decided to move up (NO CW) at the right time just like Pac moved up to JWW, WW and JMW at the right time selecting certain fighters at certain weight classes AT certain weights......

[IronDanHamza]

Well that's looking back in hindsight...I think it's easy to look back at it...But, the fact is Pac wasn't suppose to win that fight. And, everybody says the Oscar about WW. But, nobody mentions that not only Pac went up 2 weight-class to fight him. But, he was at 135 for just one fight...If you really look at it you can say he went up 3 weight-classes.

I feel if you felt beforehand that Pac was going to beat Oscar.

Then that's fine if you don't want to give him credit.

But, if you thought that Pac couldn't really win the fight. Then you have have to give him credit.

For example I give Floyd the up most credit for beating the likes of Mosley. Because, before the fight even though I thought Floyd would win, I favored Floyd I still thought Mosley was a legit thread...

And, I could be like these F'ing idiots like Wess and try to diminish that win by Floyd. By making all type of excuses, as in Shane was old, worn out, shot, was coming off the longest layoff of his career, 16 month layoff, and blah blah...But, that would be very faggotry(not a real word) of me to do so. Because, I knew all of that beforehand and I still thought he was a threat. So of course I give Floyd credit.

People knew that Oscar was old, people knew that Oscar was going back down to 147 and hadn't been there in years, people knew that light feather fisted -at 130- Forbes marked up Oscar face pretty damn bad. People knew all of that and they still thought Oscar was cherry picking a small guy in Pac. So not to give Pac credit, I mean C'mon.

I agree with you people thought that. And if they solely thought De La Hoya would win regardless, then it's dumb to not give him credit.

However if they reason people thought he was win is becase people THOUGHT De La Hoya would win in the presumption that he would still be able to perform at 147, but when it became clear he couldn't, I think its understandable to discredit the win. Yes no one expected it but that doesnt change the fact Oscar was dead.

Personally, I was skeptical about Pacqiauo moving up to 147, but I honestly believed he had a clear shot against Oscar. 1. Because Pacqiauo is better than Oscar, peroid. And 2. I knew it would hurt Oscar to go down at this point in career. At this point on is in two minds due to Manny moving up, but leaning on him. Then when i saw the fight night weights I knew Oscar was going to be dead.

One thing I didn't expect, even with the weight, was the way he did it, that was very impressive.

[Vasyl’s dad]

I wont argue that Floyd decided to move up (NO CW) at the right time just like Pac moved up to JWW, WW and JMW at the right time selecting certain fighters at certain weight classes AT certain weights......

The only "right time" case you have for Manny is, 135.

Other than that, he beat down the lineal champ at 140, and destroyed the guys Floyd was scared to (Cotto, Margarito). Now, hes lining up in his sights, Mosley, the guy you all said he ducked.


As I said, its easy to look at numbers without understanding the context they are used in. So while you and other birds chirp about, "He fought the #s this and that at welterweight, so there!",

it doesn't look good when you dig under the surface. Its the same Floyd stans tried to pull when trying to justify the Marquez fight, "well, he is the # 2 PFP fighter in the world".

Yea, and he had to cheat the numbers on the contract too.

[WESS]

The only "right time" case you have for Manny is, 135.

Other than that, he beat down the lineal champ at 140, and destroyed the guys Floyd was scared to (Cotto, Margarito). Now, hes lining up in his sights, Mosley, the guy you all said he ducked.


As I said, its easy to look at numbers without understanding the context they are used in. So while you and other birds chirp about, "He fought the #s this and that at welterweight, so there!",

it doesn't look good when you dig under the surface. Its the same Floyd stans tried to pull when trying to justify the Marquez fight, "well, he is the # 2 PFP fighter in the world".

Yea, and he had to cheat the numbers on the contract too.

Pac beat Ricky Hatton after the fact. He wasn't and isn't the same fighter to this day. Beating feather fisted Pauli is not justification either.

Floyd fought an undefeated Hatton at 147. A weight Fatton had fought at before. Don't even talk about Cotto, that was Bob's fought when Floyd wanted the undefeated Cotto at JWW. Bob also didn't pay Floyd the money he wanted for Margarito. But you can call it ducking if you want. Its what ever. It wont change my mind on either guys run from JWW to JMW.

As for Mayweather fighting JMM, there is no accuse it was trash. Just as Pac vs Clottey/Margarito and now Mosley was and will be. Fighting Mosley NOW in 2011 doesn't prove anything as we already know Mosley is passed it.... Just like Calzaghe willing to fight Jones in 2008 didn't prove anything. Where was Joey when Jones was P4P#1 and FOTD/undefeated?

Where was Pac when Mosley destroyed Margarito? Where was Pac when Margarito destroyed Cotto? Where was Pac when Cotto beat Mosley or destroyed Judah? Was it perfect timing on Arum/Pac/Roach for selecting certain fighters at certain weight classes AT certain weights????????

Floyd's run from 140-154 > Pac's run from 140-154

If your saying Floyd ducked Cotto and Margarito than Pac's ducked Mayweather (1st round of negotiations) @ 147, Martinez @ 154, Berto @ 147, Bradley @ 140-147, JMM III @ 130-147......

[pitythefool]

Jmm deserves a fight with pacman

I love pacman but i love jmm more. Jmm deserves a chance even at 147. I can understand why pacman has avoided jmm because he is fighting bigger guys and he is ultimately after mayweather so fighting jmm would be a step back. However, if mayweather is ducking than the trilogy should be made.