what was edwin valero chances at 140?

[MACAQUEINBLACK]

Doubt based on what? Because he didn't have Roach?

Funny how he doesn't doubt the potential for further significant improvement in Khan.


Not that I think it's about Roach per se (even if PK does seem to be in love with that whole Pac-Khan Wild Card club right now), but just his own quirky leanings. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[PandaKilla]

Doubt based on what? Because he didn't have Roach?

C'mon man there's a reason why his sparring partners, Doug Fisher and many California coaches said he was going to be good because they know boxing.

For him to improve, he was quite old at 28. It takes a long time to learn things IMO.

Secondly, Roach is a world class proven trainer who has been with Hopkins, Toney, Tyson, Virgil Hill etc... A trainer could have told him to use more lateral movement, hold his chin down or hands up. Those flaws woulkd have cost him VS more accurate or faster guys in my opinion.

Yes Doug Fisher loved him, and I enjoy his sparring and fights myself, but many guys who watch someone in the gym also say this kid could be the next thing.

Bernavidez could be the next big thing, but there's still doubt, because nothing is proven.

See what I am saying?

Everyone who is in contact with someone may think they are the ebst thing, but there are always losers.

Replies in quotes are a pain in the ass.


Plus, Edwin's dead; none of us are proving this, either way.

I think he had the X Factor, the intagibles to go pretty far. You may not see it that way.



Everybody can think what they like. Fact is, Valero is a boxing folk-hero, he's Billy the Kid, he's Bonnie and Clyde, he's the Ten Tigers of Canton, he's from their cloth.

Sorry bro, I dunno how you break the quote down unless you manually type it in.

I can see why Valero was good, he was good, but also I can not let myself just assume he would have beaten the guys at 140 when I personally believe it is a solid division, and the guys there pose things Valero hasn't seen at this higher weight such as defence, speed, power, combination, footwork etc.. that match or surpass him.

[PandaKilla]

Funny how he doesn't doubt the potential for further significant improvement in Khan.


Not that I think it's about Roach per se (even if PK does seem to be in love with that whole Pac-Khan Wild Card club right now), but just his own quirky leanings. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I have said Khan makes mistakes. He doesn't deal with pressure well, but he at least now holds his hands up high.

Can he improve? Well he has done, and at a higher level than Valero already at a young age.


If you asked me, would he go up in weight and face Mayweather or Pac, or even Clottey, Berto at 147, then I would say he would lose 2 or 3 at least right now.

In fact I have always said Bradley has the tools to beat Khan, but Khan has the tools to beat Bradley.

60/40 fight for me. Bradley's favour.

[PandaKilla]

Replies in quotes are a pain in the ass.


Plus, Edwin's dead; none of us are proving this, either way.

I think he had the X Factor, the intagibles to go pretty far. You may not see it that way.



Everybody can think what they like. Fact is, Valero is a boxing folk-hero, he's Billy the Kid, he's Bonnie and Clyde, he's the Ten Tigers of Canton, he's from their cloth.

Sorry bro, I dunno how you do those quotes unless you manually do it. Heck I already replied to this but can't find my post.

Valero is abit like Bruce Lee then, who knows how he would have done in MMA.

[Shadows]

I think he beats everyone there. he stops maidana and ortiz. he was going to fight peterson as his first fight at 140 he was going to beat him. we seen him punch box speed stamina relentless dude had a gash on his head look like cayote droped a anvil on his head and he kept going.

I don't know if we can ever definitively say how Valero would do at 140, but I think he had the talent to do well.

Sure, he had was a bit rough around the edges in some areas, but he does match up well with some of those at 140 with the way he already was.

I find it interesting that trainers and writers who had seen Valero in the gym thought highly of him, it was just that he wanted to run the show. They agreed that he had the potential, but didn't want to listen to anyone. It was for this reason he split with Kenny Adams, who spoke highly of Valero.

[Dagomba]

For him to improve, he was quite old at 28. It takes a long time to learn things IMO.

Secondly, Roach is a world class proven trainer who has been with Hopkins, Toney, Tyson, Virgil Hill etc... A trainer could have told him to use more lateral movement, hold his chin down or hands up. Those flaws woulkd have cost him VS more accurate or faster guys in my opinion.

Yes Doug Fisher loved him, and I enjoy his sparring and fights myself, but many guys who watch someone in the gym also say this kid could be the next thing.

Bernavidez could be the next big thing, but there's still doubt, because nothing is proven.

See what I am saying?

Everyone who is in contact with someone may think they are the ebst thing, but there are always losers.

Come on, Pacquiao was around the same age 27 or 28 when we began to see some real improvement when he faced David Diaz. Against Chololo Larios, Erik Morales and Solis he didn't have to do anything differently.
That's why we saw Valero fighting the same way until he began to step his opposition up a notch, what he was doing was enough to KO those guys.

Roach is a proven coach there's no doubt about it but he's not the only one that can make improvements on a boxer. There are plenty of trainer who can polish a fighter.

Your last point is also speculation like mine, I base my point on boxers, trainers and analyst's comments. I don't think you can blame anyone for thinking he could have been a great fighter in the future. Specially on the hands of Bob Arum.

[PandaKilla]

Come on, Pacquiao was around the same age 27 or 28 when we began to see some real improvement when he faced David Diaz. Against Chololo Larios, Erik Morales and Solis he didn't have to do anything differently.
That's why we saw Valero fighting the same way until he began to step his opposition up a notch, what he was doing was enough to KO those guys.

Roach is a proven coach there's no doubt about it but he's not the only one that can make improvements on a boxer. There are plenty of trainer who can polish a fighter.

Your last point is also speculation like mine, I base my point on boxers, trainers and analyst's comments. I don't think you can blame anyone for thinking he could have been a great fighter in the future. Specially on the hands of Bob Arum.

Pacquaio was fighting better guys at a younger age. No doubt for me.

You're right he staretd to improved drastically around that age, so Valero could have.

Whether he would get the right team, even under Arum, who knows, since he was unstable outside of the ring, while Pacquaio put a lot of hard work in his boxing.

Who would Valero have gone to, I dunno. Would he have even hired a top trainer?

He could have been great in the future indeed, like any prospect who shows signs of being good, but you also face tougher tests where your questioned.

This is where the grey area is, has his chin been questioned, his power and speed at the better level.

So this is why I guess we can not agree, because my view is he was not proven and yours is that he could have improved.

[Walt Liquor]

It suggests his power was more a product of opposition when one of the very few good fighters he faced can take his punches and if a LW contender who himself never proved he was a top guy at 135 can take his shots well then I am inclined to think proven would class guys in the next weight class up would handle them even better.

I'd say a beatdown of Tony demarco makes him a solid lw contender, not to mention having a belt.

[Spray_resistant]

I'd say a beatdown of Tony demarco makes him a solid lw contender, not to mention having a belt.

Yeah, thats as far as it goes, LW contender not really one of the best at LW and certainly not in league with top 140lbers.

Also belts are either garbage or they aren't ppl can't keep switching back and forth to fit an agenda.

[Walt Liquor]

I don't know if we can ever definitively say how Valero would do at 140, but I think he had the talent to do well.

Sure, he had was a bit rough around the edges in some areas, but he does match up well with some of those at 140 with the way he already was.

I find it interesting that trainers and writers who had seen Valero in the gym thought highly of him, it was just that he wanted to run the show. They agreed that he had the potential, but didn't want to listen to anyone. It was for this reason he split with Kenny Adams, who spoke highly of Valero.

ITS A GOOD POINT, TALENT-WISE EVERYONE thought e could be a pfp type guy, but would he ever have the needed dedication to be an elite fighter consistently