Comments Thread For: De La Hoya: There is No Doubt Mayweather Beats Pacquiao

[ThePrince]

I can't believe I'm debating about something I couldn't care less about. Anyways. I'm glad you bring up Kotnz, and his relationship, or lack thereof, with everyone in Pac's camp. They pretty much come out and rebuke everything he says, but not this.

But they DID rebuke this, which is what you are not grasping for whatever reason. This includes Manny personally, and Roach has said in countless interviews (in print and video) the same thing Manny is saying. And Roach, Arum, etc never formally rebuked Koncz when he erroneously told the press the Clottey fight was going to be at a 144 catchweight, they simply stated the truth of the matter, just as in this case.

As for you, you haven't produced video, like you said you would, of Pac making his "sixth round" quote.

Don't see why a video is required, especially when there's a bunch of videos and press clippings of Pac saying the same thing only without that particular caveat, which was clearly hyperbole to anyone with half a brain.

How about you produce video or any sort of media where Richard Schaefer, Oscar De La Hoya, Ross Greenburg (anyone at HBO), Al Haymon, or Floyd Mayweather Jr claim the reason Floyd is on 'vacation' now is because of Manny Pacquiao's refusal to undergo Olympic style blood testing.

I'll wait.

Playing devil's advocate. Why is it that when people are critical of Pac's choice of opponents, diehard Pac fans like yourself point to Pac not being apart of his own negotiations and he just fights whomever his people put in front of him. But, when it comes to this testing nonsense, he's 100% in the loop of everything that's going on?

When the hell did I ever say that?

No way a fighter on his level is told who he is or isn't going to fight. Obviously he will be advised (see Koncz, Michael) by various parties on what he should do, but ultimately the final decision comes down to him. Which is why when HE says HE agreed to take any and all drug tests in print and video to various news outlets without any contradictory rebuttal from the other side, you should take his word for it.

You take an L on that one.

[hitking]

We will see. So when he comes back and makes a fight with anyone BUT Pac, Martinez, Cotto, Williams, or even Margarito, we'll know what the truth is.

The guy said it himself, "I'm a prize fighter, I fight for a prize duh". So these are the only money making fights IMO and he is nowhere to be found. His next move will tell us a lot. I personally think he has backed himself into a corner.

He was "backed into the same corner" when the negotiations fell through and he fought Mosley, who was the next best guy available P4P. When he came back, he fought JMM, who was the next best guy P4P available. So when he comes back this time, and a fight with Pac falls through, Martinez falls right in line with his last two opponents, as the next best P4P guy available.

[Supreme75]

He was "backed into the same corner" when the negotiations fell through and he fought Mosley, who was the next best guy available P4P. When he came back, he fought JMM, who was the next best guy P4P available. So when he comes back this time, and a fight with Pac falls through, Martinez falls right in line with his last two opponents, as the next best P4P guy available.

Well hopefully by the time he decides to come back, Martinez won't be shot. But then again, that's probably when he will come back ha!

Seriously, that fight should happen and happen fairly soon.

[hitking]

But they DID rebuke this, which is what you are not grasping for whatever reason. This includes Manny personally, and Roach has said in countless interviews (in print and video) the same thing Manny is saying. And Roach, Arum, etc never formally rebuked Koncz when he erroneously told the press the Clottey fight was going to be at a 144 catchweight, they simply stated the truth of the matter, just as in this case.



Don't see why a video is required, especially when there's a bunch of videos and press clippings of Pac saying the same thing only without that particular caveat, which was clearly hyperbole to anyone with half a brain.

How about you produce video or any sort of media where Richard Schaefer, Oscar De La Hoya, Ross Greenburg (anyone at HBO), Al Haymon, or Floyd Mayweather Jr claim the reason Floyd is on 'vacation' now is because of Manny Pacquiao's refusal to undergo Olympic style blood testing.

I'll wait.



When the hell did I ever say that?

No way a fighter on his level is told who he is or isn't going to fight. Obviously he will be advised (see Koncz, Michael) by various parties on what he should do, but ultimately the final decision comes down to him. Which is why when HE says HE agreed to take any and all drug tests in print and video to various news outlets without any contradictory rebuttal from the other side, you should take his word for it.

You take an L on that one.

OK, I'll take my L in Pacland. But here on planet Earth, I'm still unbeaten. Either way, like I said, I could care less about the whole testing thing. And I think the facts support my stance that Mayweather and Pac are avoiding each other a lot more than the one is scared of the other fairy tale that each's hardcore fanbase like to believe.

[hitking]

Well hopefully by the time he decides to come back, Martinez won't be shot. But then again, that's probably when he will come back ha!

Seriously, that fight should happen and happen fairly soon.

A you can do is fight him when he's hot Funny though, I remember a lot of Mayweather's critics screaming to everyone that would listen that he was scared of Mosley and wouldn't fight him after Mosley jumped in his face after the JMM fight. Funny thing is, a lot of those same people blasted him for beating Mosley. I guess Mosley became shot, old, blah, blah, blah in the eight months between jumping in Money's face and taking his ass whippin.

[hitking]

Personally, I can't say who is telling the truth about the testing because the stories from both camps are conflicting & the media reports lack consistency as well. The last I heard was that Pacquiao agreed to the testing as long as there is a 7-day cut-off, which in my opinion defeats the purpose because the testing would then cease to be "random." Now if they agree to a cut-off date, then fine. Otherwise, mentions of a cut-off date are moot because USADA testing is random.

Furthermore, a video of Manny or Floyd stating what they did or didn't agree to proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. A recorded statement does not prove that the words coming out of the person's mouth are true or accurate......they only prove that the person said the things stated in the recording. Anyone who would believe any & everything someone said is extremely naive. I don't care if it's your favorite person in the world......no one is immune to lying, being lied to or giving inaccurate accounts of events....especially when it serves their best interest. The only video that could prove who is giving the accurate story would be a video recording of the actual negotiations themseves. Anything else is subject to speculation & rightfully so.

It all boils down to who's story you believe. Pacquiao fans are not gonna buy Floyd's story & Mayweather fans are not gonna buy Manny's story. Who you believe shouldn't be decided by who your favorite is or who you like the most....it should be determined by who makes the most sense. One can only do that succesfully by being objective & not having an emotional investment in who is right or wrong.

All these videos prove nothing because they are not videos of the actual negotiations. Having said that, where would your frame of reference come from regarding who is telling the truth, unless you were there for the negotiations? Therefore, you're just regurgitating something you heard in hopes that it's a matter of fact. I can post a video of Rafael Palmeiro waving his finger at a Congressional Hearing stating that he never used steroids. I can post a video of Bill Clinton waving his finger at a White House Press Conference stating that he never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky. Both recordings are nothing more than videos of prominent public figures telling lies. The video did not prove that either were telling the truth. It just proved that they made those statements. Now when the truth came out, those same videos made them guys look & feel rather idiotic, I presume. The same may happen to the parties involved in the whole Manny vs. Floyd debates.

Believe what you want, but don't be so naive as to believe any &/or everything you see, read or hear. Base your beliefs off of someone presenting you with sensible information that makes more sense than the alternative story that you're being fed. And even then.....unless you have proof to validate the story you are prone to believe....the truth probably lays somewhere in the middle. That's why, unless I have no choice but to make a judgement call based on logic & reason, I go with validated facts.

Best post on the issue I've read.

[Champ Is Here]

Arguing over 7 days when really there should be no set limit for testing period

[Supreme75]

A you can do is fight him when he's hot Funny though, I remember a lot of Mayweather's critics screaming to everyone that would listen that he was scared of Mosley and wouldn't fight him after Mosley jumped in his face after the JMM fight. Funny thing is, a lot of those same people blasted him for beating Mosley. I guess Mosley became shot, old, blah, blah, blah in the eight months between jumping in Money's face and taking his ass whippin.

I was one of the people who thought he was scared of Mosley, BUT I didn't ***** and moan when Mayweather made it look easy. He did what he did and I give him credit for it.

My "shot" comment was me thinking that, there is no way he comes back, after a very long layoff mind you, and fights a guy who is active, and at the very top of his game like Martinez, unless he was shot. But hey, he may surprise us all.

[hitking]

I was one of the people who thought he was scared of Mosley, BUT I didn't ***** and moan when Mayweather made it look easy. He did what he did and I give him credit for it.

My "shot" comment was me thinking that, there is no way he comes back, after a very long layoff mind you, and fights a guy at the very top of his game like Martinez, unless he was shot. But hey, he may surprise us all.

He came back after a two year layoff and fought JMM. I knwo, I know, those in IHate Mayweatherville believe that JMM miraculously goes from being one of the 2-3 bests fighters of his era as a lightweight and one of the worst fighters in history as a welterweight. But here on Earth, beating a fighter like that coming off that long a layoff was impressive.

[PacquiaoATG]