Sugar Ray Leonard VS Mayweather,pick one plz

[Walt Liquor]

remnind me of the knockout danger that corley possessed wshen he fought floyd, which guys was he knocking out? was he known as a big puncher?

its like you're trying to give heart props for going toe to toe with derrick gainer or paul spadafora. sure, that's the same as going toe to toe with pac or even a cotto.......

[Travdog]

all that is total bullshi t.

i give floyd his props for shane and his career at 130-5. THAT'S IT (and barely at 135). He gets absolutely no heart comparison for going toe to toe with a journeyman beltholder like corley compared to the wars and heart SRL showed in the ring and in choosing his opponents.

look, if you want to count SRL as having ducked 2 fighters (one of which he eventually fought) who are hof'ers and atg's, then how the *** can you defend floyd's career? You're talking about leonard then you mention margs, casa, frietas, tszyu, and you forgot steve johnson, spaddy, cotto, etc etc etc that floyd could have fought. LOL!!!! Then you point out prior and hagler LOL!

it's not even worth mentioning or debating you because your whole slant on the issue is ridiculous. floyd got wobbled by shane and fought back in that round and the next and shane gave up (after a 16 month layoff and being what? 39?

how does that compare to the heart srl showed vs his murderous competition?

floyd's career is a laughingstock compared to srl,s and ever sweet pea's. they should never ever be mentioned in the same sentence as far as competition goes. floyd's best win by far is corrales no? and his best win since going up to 140 is Judah and Shane at 147 no? Judah beat who at 147? remind me?

Shane was a good win to me, i didn't think he would give up and floyd could have knocked him out.

What's total BS?

You are clearly not someone that appreciates the guts that it takes to get in the ring and perform at a high level. You are clearly someone that does not understand that any man that steps in the ring can be hurt and yes if he able to overcome those obstacles he is indeed showing heart.

As far as Corley goes if I'm correct he had Miguel Cotto out on his feet. Corley was a champion who gave a once defeated Judah and tough battle. But of course Corley is a nobody to you because he's not an all time great.

I think you're having a problem reading and comprehending. People are going crazy saying that Floyd doesn't have heart for fighting Pacquaio and they began the negotiation process a little over a year ago. Could you imagine if it took him 5 years to fight Pac how people would react? And Pryor went right up in his face and Sugar never wanted any part of him.....Now under your logic that would be him not showing heart.....I don't feel that way but that's what this world on the boxing forums has become today. Sugar Ray Leonard would be killed today if he did those things....

I mentioned those fighters because people always bring up those fighters to discredit Floyd's resume because they were not included. But let's be real he would not have been given credit for beating anyone of them.

Had Floyd fought Cotto and beat him like he did to Corrales he would be an after thought.....For what ever reason people discredit Floyd every time they get a chance....

Who in the last 13 years is an all time great that Floyd should have fought?

[Daim]

i would take Floyd only because Ray danced around and showboated, and i think he was able to do that to slower fighters like duran and hagler but who has sugar fought that had the reflexes and countering skills like floyd. i know this is an era vs new era argument and that it is hard to determine a clear victor but i think Floyd is that good.

Please don't try to sugarcoat your post like U know wtf you're talking about. If you dont know who Wilfredo Benitez is you shouldn't even bother to post on this thread, oh btw this isn't about ***** amount of posts but actual knowledge.

[The Noose]

Leonard.

Floyd is great, but not at WW, and Leonard is just in another league. Too big, powerful, fast, smart and tough.

IMO Leonard could out box PBF, but if he had to he would pressure and brawl with him, and i dont think Floyd would survive.

[Walt Liquor]

What's total BS?

You are clearly not someone that appreciates the guts that it takes to get in the ring and perform at a high level. You are clearly someone that does not understand that any man that steps in the ring can be hurt and yes if he able to overcome those obstacles he is indeed showing heart.

As far as Corley goes if I'm correct he had Miguel Cotto out on his feet. Corley was a champion who gave a once defeated Judah and tough battle. But of course Corley is a nobody to you because he's not an all time great.

I think you're having a problem reading and comprehending. People are going crazy saying that Floyd doesn't have heart for
figh

ting Pacquaio and they began the negotiation process a little over a year ago. Could you imagine if it took him 5 years to fight Pac how people would react? And Pryor went right up in his face and Sugar never wanted any part of him.....Now under your logic that would be him not showing heart.....I don't feel that way but that's what
this world on the boxing forums has become
today. Sugar Ray Leonard would be killed

today if he did those things....I mentioned those fighters because people always bring up those fighters to discredit Floyd's resume because they were not included. But let's be real he would not have been given credit for beating anyone of them.Had Floyd fought Cotto and beat him like he did to Corrales he would be an after thought.....For what ever reason peoplediscredit Floyd every time they
get a chance....
Who in the last 13 years is an all time great that Floyd should have fought?

you are attributing others posts to me, yet having a direct discussion with me.

You're very confused. There's a big
difference in standing up and throwing down with different levels of fighters. I'm sorry you don't understand that


Even worse is yur claim that srl would be villified today. If he were fighting the challenges hw did back then today, he'd be selling 5 million ppv's. We've come to accept supposed great fighters (Floyd, manny) fighting the opponent with the least possible risk for the most money. Srl proved his mettle vs the best in the ring. He still fought hagler before hagler was over the hill so it's nit a complete duck. Why can't you understand that? Stop using hagler, cuz it makes your argument weaker.

I'm saying floyd's resume will never be what srl's is.

I've already written a list of guys Floyd could have fought. Enjoy your timeline. And good job ignoring selective comments and then asking about them later.

Floyd created the problem of people being on his ass. No one was on his shi t before 2004. But he's earned the heat he catches. If you don't understand how, you're blinded by your love. Seriously. You have Floyd winning all the imaginary fights you want, enjoy.

Don't tell me about corley Judah when Floyd fought Judah at 147 when judah clearly wasn't a 147 lber. He won the title v spinks. Big deal, he got SMASHED by clottey and cotto.

Again, no word on corley's big knockouts, like I asked, instead you bring up him wobbling cotto, wow. Sounds very hearnsy.

Floyd is a hof fighter. He's a professional, he fights for a living, obviously he's not you average guy in the gym, but you can't comapres the heart he's shown in the ring to srl, srl was something special, Floyd has shown the heart of a regular prizefighter.

[Travdog]

you are attributing others posts to me, yet having a direct discussion with me.

You're very confused. There's a big
difference in standing up and throwing down with different levels of fighters. I'm sorry you don't understand that


Even worse is yur claim that srl would be villified today. If he were fighting the challenges hw did back then today, he'd be selling 5 million ppv's. We've come to accept supposed great fighters (Floyd, manny) fighting the opponent with the least possible risk for the most money. Srl proved his mettle vs the best in the ring. He still fought hagler before hagler was over the hill so it's nit a complete duck. Why can't you understand that? Stop using hagler, cuz it makes your argument weaker.

I'm saying floyd's resume will never be what srl's is.

I've already written a list of guys Floyd could have fought. Enjoy your timeline. And good job ignoring selective comments and then asking about them later.

Floyd created the problem of people being on his ass. No one was on his shi t before 2004. But he's earned the heat he catches. If you don't understand how, you're blinded by your love. Seriously. You have Floyd winning all the imaginary fights you want, enjoy.

Don't tell me about corley Judah when Floyd fought Judah at 147 when judah clearly wasn't a 147 lber. He won the title v spinks. Big deal, he got SMASHED by clottey and cotto.

Again, no word on corley's big knockouts, like I asked, instead you bring up him wobbling cotto, wow. Sounds very hearnsy.

Floyd is a hof fighter. He's a professional, he fights for a living, obviously he's not you average guy in the gym, but you can't comapres the heart he's shown in the ring to srl, srl was something special, Floyd has shown the heart of a regular prizefighter.

Here's the point I'm trying to make that you're not getting.....Kevin Howard dropped Sugar Ray Leonard when Duran and Hearns couldn't do it....Was Kevin Howard a top fighter? No but he dropped the great Ray Leonard....Had Leonard folded then people would say that he had no heart despite fighting Duran and Hearns...It happens in the sport..


And no Floyd does not show heart of a Regular fighter because he fights at a World Championship level virtually his whole career and has fought top fighters and always performs at a top level....Corley fought Judah at 140. Judah only lost once as a 40 pounder.

As far as Ray Leonard and Haglar he waited five years for Haglar to fade and that has been documented. Especially after the war with Mugabe that's Leonard chose to fight Haglar.

If you think the fighters that Mayweather fought were garbage you clearly don't pay close attention to boxing.....Leonard fought some of the greats but he fought some guys who would be considered stiffs today leading up to his fight with Benitez....

Well Corrales was a KO artist that was undefeated and favored versus Mayweather. Floyd went in there and blew him away does he get credit for that? Does that show heart?

[RealIzm]

Leonard.

Floyd is great, but not at WW, and Leonard is just in another league. Too big, powerful, fast, smart and tough.

IMO Leonard could out box PBF, but if he had to he would pressure and brawl with him, and i dont think Floyd would survive.

This......

[Walt Liquor]

Here's the point I'm trying to make that you're not getting.....Kevin Howard dropped Sugar Ray Leonard when Duran and Hearns couldn't do it....Was Kevin Howard a top fighter? No but he dropped the great Ray Leonard....Had Leonard folded then people would say that he had no heart despite fighting Duran and Hearns...It happens in the sport..


And no Floyd does not show heart of a Regular fighter because he fights at a World Championship level virtually his whole career and has fought top fighters and always performs at a top level....Corley fought Judah at 140. Judah only lost once as a 40 pounder.

As far as Ray Leonard and Haglar he waited five years for Haglar to fade and that has been documented. Especially after the war with Mugabe that's Leonard chose to fight Haglar.

If you think the fighters that Mayweather fought were garbage you clearly don't pay close attention to boxing.....Leonard fought some of the greats but he fought some guys who would be considered stiffs today leading up to his fight with Benitez....

Well Corrales was a KO artist that was undefeated and favored versus Mayweather. Floyd went in there and blew him away does he get credit for that? Does that show heart?

and that's where there's no comparison.

when did anyone (specifically me) not give credit for corrales???????

everyone fights some that are considered stiffs. duh, but floyd doesn't sprinkle the real challenges among those stiffs. I can't believe you seem intelligent but you are arguing that floyd has fought competition even close to leonard's level.

there's nothing special about floyd's level of comp, he has many contemporaries that fought MUCH tougher comp than he did.

ps, a faded hagler at 160>anyone floyd ever faced, yes even corrales, ans especially > anyone floyd ever faced over 135.

you are grasping for someone to kiss floyd's ass. it's not gonna happen, he's a hall of famer and an incredibly gifted boxer but he will never capture people's imagination the way people like chavez, sweet pea, hearns, hagler, oscar, tito, etc did because fighters like floyd don't fight like that anymore.

the floyd/roy jones school of challenge avoidance has a select few members. and you follow that school. i don't. i'd rather my favorite fighters not need excuses for their resumes. and if SRL has a disputed duck or two, i'd gladly exchange that for the fights he did have. same with a shane mosley or miguel cotto

and your first paragraph goes without saying, but what makes a fighter's heart extroadinary is going through real wars, like morales-barrera 1-3, srl v hearns, pac-barrera, jmm in jmm-pac 1- defining moments. floyd doesn't want that defininng moment, so it has to be corrales or, maybe a judah win? or maybe...oh well. it's such a freakin letdown trying to find his defnining moment. if it's corrales, that's pretty sad considering it was almost a decade ago.

[Johnwoo8686]

Here's the point I'm trying to make that you're not getting.....Kevin Howard dropped Sugar Ray Leonard when Duran and Hearns couldn't do it....Was Kevin Howard a top fighter? No but he dropped the great Ray Leonard....Had Leonard folded then people would say that he had no heart despite fighting Duran and Hearns...It happens in the sport..


And no Floyd does not show heart of a Regular fighter because he fights at a World Championship level virtually his whole career and has fought top fighters and always performs at a top level....Corley fought Judah at 140. Judah only lost once as a 40 pounder.

As far as Ray Leonard and Haglar he waited five years for Haglar to fade and that has been documented. Especially after the war with Mugabe that's Leonard chose to fight Haglar.

If you think the fighters that Mayweather fought were garbage you clearly don't pay close attention to boxing.....Leonard fought some of the greats but he fought some guys who would be considered stiffs today leading up to his fight with Benitez....

Well Corrales was a KO artist that was undefeated and favored versus Mayweather. Floyd went in there and blew him away does he get credit for that? Does that show heart?

Travdog you speak the truth. The hate some of these posters have for Floyd has blinded them. If Floyd beat Margarito, Margarito wouldve definitely got the Baldo treatment. They would bring up Margs losses and his handwrap scandal in order to discredit Floyd. If FLoyd decisioned Cotto they would say he couldnt knock Cotto out the way PAc or Margarito did.

I agree Floyd hasnt fought anyone of a hearns or duran level but what fighter today is on a Hearns or Duran level? None. I think Pacquiao is the closest thing we have to a modern era atg and even if Floyd were to beat him people would say his resume doesnt match up to SRL. SRL openly stated he waited for Hagler to deteriorate and he did avoid Pryor but if Floyd does something similar hes vilified.
I believe some of the criticism Floyd gets is deserved but most of it is just blind hate. When it comes down this fight I believe it is about skills and who was the better pound for pound. To me this fight is a toss up since both fighters primes were at different weight classes.

[Pullcounter]

Travdog you speak the truth. The hate some of these posters have for Floyd has blinded them. If Floyd beat Margarito, Margarito wouldve definitely got the Baldo treatment. They would bring up Margs losses and his handwrap scandal in order to discredit Floyd. If FLoyd decisioned Cotto they would say he couldnt knock Cotto out the way PAc or Margarito did.

who gives a **** what people say! pac fans can say that pac beat up marg and cotto. *****s can't say the same thing.

also, it's *****s who discredited marg and cotto so that wifebeater wouldn't have to fight them, now *****s are getting all mad that wifebeater won't get credit for beating them!!! do *****s see how ****** they are now?

this is exactly what happened with the mosley fight. *****s discredited mosley, but now they expect wifebeater to get credit for beating mosley?

c'mon *****s, use your brains.