Floyd fanz: what peak, great, natural welter has floyd beat?

[wpink1]

Well Thank you.






But that's pure coincidence. Did Leonard actually wait for Roberto Duran to get a couple of fights in at Welterweight? Me thinks not, nobody is that calculating.





Yes he beat Hagler in a controversial decision but that's irrelevant. The fact is that Leonard retired on and off for years, while Hagler kept establishing his Middleweight credentials further.

Again, this goes back to my Tito Trinidad point. Tito like Hagler at 160, was a long time Welterweight Champion and had accumulated multiple title defenses at 147, BUT he left before Floyd could catch him. So it's not Floyd's fault there was no Hagler-esque figure at Welterweight for him to beat. Margarito & Williams sure weren't it.



This is just more standard Anti-Floyd talking points. The demand was there for him to fight Mosley. Even in 2009-2010, there were calls for him to face Mosley. If he hadn't faced him, it would be considered another DUCK. But now that he did, the response is that he beat a Old Mosley.

You can't have it both ways.

Cupacity. I will hold address your flaws.

"But that's pure coincidence. Did Leonard actually wait for Roberto Duran to get a couple of fights in at Welterweight? Me thinks not, nobody is that calculating."

Duran was the pound per pound best in boxing. Moved up to welter to challenge Ray, however Ray was not the chanpion, so Dundee did not want to face Duran until a championship was on the line. Duran had 8 fights including palimino to prove his worth. Leonard had orignally signed to fight Cuevas, then Ray arcel and the WBC boxing commission met and Duran was the challenger instead of Cuevas, and this was the fight both wanted.

Also many people do not know that this fight was almost called off as Ray had the serious flu in nyc a week before the fight while duran was in montreal. However ray rested and showed up 4 days before the fight. Some think this weakened Ray, but you never hear Ray talk about that. He simply came to fight toe to toe and showed what he was able to do. Mayweather showed his toe to toe skills vs Castillo, who is not near a Duran. and he ******.

Yes he beat Hagler in a controversial decision but that's irrelevant. The fact is that Leonard retired on and off for years, while Hagler kept establishing his Middleweight credentials further.

Not understanding you here. Ray being retired had much more negative imapcts to his reflexes, stamina etc not having but one fight in 5 years. I agree Hagler was great and dominated for 7 straight years at middleweight, was only 32 and had koed his toughest 3 opponents leading up to Ray.

Again, this goes back to my Tito Trinidad point. Tito like Hagler at 160, was a long time Welterweight Champion and had accumulated multiple title defenses at 147, BUT he left before Floyd could catch him. So it's not Floyd's fault there was no Hagler-esque figure at Welterweight for him to beat.

There May not be Hagler's but there was winky wright. who mayweather had signed in 2007 to fight, but backed out of for whatever reason. There is pacman... there is Williams. There is cotto, there was margo. Who has mayweather fought instead. Dlh for money sure. Mosley who did beat margo good fight and yes the media wanted it. I wanted it. but is this fight, this fighter 38 seriously a candidate for showing how great of a fighter Mayweather is in comparison to the leoanrds, ali, Robinson;s etc.

Now if Mayweathr beats pacman and Williams then yes having mosley included in this list is great, but it can not be the showcase bout of his career. if so then that shows just my point.

[Ray*]

So pacuiao is a great natural WW according to the threadstarter? Didnt your thread starts with "Peak,great, natural welter" ????

[cupocity303]

There May not be Hagler's but there was winky wright. who mayweather had signed in 2007 to fight, but backed out of for whatever reason. There is pacman... there is Williams. There is cotto, there was margo. Who has mayweather fought instead. Dlh for money sure. Mosley who did beat margo good fight and yes the media wanted it. I wanted it. but is this fight, this fighter 38 seriously a candidate for showing how great of a fighter Mayweather is in comparison to the leoanrds, ali, Robinson;s etc.

Now if Mayweathr beats pacman and Williams then yes having mosley included in this list is great, but it can not be the showcase bout of his career. if so then that shows just my point.

Not gonna get into the rest of your longwinded history lesson but this was eye catching.

You asked, when did Floyd beat a 1. Natural, 2. Great, 3. Peak......opponent.

Yet you're asking him to face Paul Williams. Is P.Williams a Natural, Peak and Great opponent? Williams maybe natural & peak, but great?

So you're contradicting your own points.

[cupocity303]

So pacuiao is a great natural WW according to the threadstarter? Didnt your thread starts with "Peak,great, natural welter" ????

Exactly what I just said.

I'm glad, i'm not the only one to notice the contradictions.

[wpink1]

Cupacity. I will hold address your flaws.

"But that's pure coincidence. Did Leonard actually wait for Roberto Duran to get a couple of fights in at Welterweight? Me thinks not, nobody is that calculating."

Duran was the pound per pound best in boxing. Moved up to welter to challenge Ray, however Ray was not the chanpion, so Dundee did not want to face Duran until a championship was on the line. Duran had 8 fights including palimino to prove his worth. Leonard had orignally signed to fight Cuevas, then Ray arcel and the WBC boxing commission met and Duran was the challenger instead of Cuevas, and this was the fight both wanted.

Also many people do not know that this fight was almost called off as Ray had the serious flu in nyc a week before the fight while duran was in montreal. However ray rested and showed up 4 days before the fight. Some think this weakened Ray, but you never hear Ray talk about that. He simply came to fight toe to toe and showed what he was able to do. Mayweather showed his toe to toe skills vs Castillo, who is not near a Duran. and he ******.

Yes he beat Hagler in a controversial decision but that's irrelevant. The fact is that Leonard retired on and off for years, while Hagler kept establishing his Middleweight credentials further.

Not understanding you here. Ray being retired had much more negative imapcts to his reflexes, stamina etc not having but one fight in 5 years. I agree Hagler was great and dominated for 7 straight years at middleweight, was only 32 and had koed his toughest 3 opponents leading up to Ray.

Again, this goes back to my Tito Trinidad point. Tito like Hagler at 160, was a long time Welterweight Champion and had accumulated multiple title defenses at 147, BUT he left before Floyd could catch him. So it's not Floyd's fault there was no Hagler-esque figure at Welterweight for him to beat.

There May not be Hagler's but there was winky wright. who mayweather had signed in 2007 to fight, but backed out of for whatever reason. There is pacman... there is Williams. There is cotto, there was margo. Who has mayweather fought instead. Dlh for money sure. Mosley who did beat margo good fight and yes the media wanted it. I wanted it. but is this fight, this fighter 38 seriously a candidate for showing how great of a fighter Mayweather is in comparison to the leoanrds, ali, Robinson;s etc.

Now if Mayweathr beats pacman and Williams then yes having mosley included in this list is great, but it can not be the showcase bout of his career. if so then that shows just my point.

cupacity, I will give you credit you seem to know boxing, and i repsect that. Thanks for the debatte with you, once it turned professional.

I think you understand my point. This is a matter of opinion outs will differ but at least your knowledgable and I respect that.

My point is yes there fighter that other greats have fought that met my (according to you) very tuff to meet criteria. it is just that Mayweathr for whatever reason has feasted on fighters that are not peak and at their best weight. Simply look at every opponent he has faced since Castillo. Sure they may be good fighters, but they are not like peak trinidad or peak Dlh, moslye. Or hearns, or haglr, or duran..etc.

if Mayweather is indeed a all time would not he make the pacman fight? if he wants to say he is better than leoanrd and Robsinson, should he not be required to do what they did and that is slay the bigger fighter, Hearns, hagler for leoanrd. All the 160 pounders robinson fought. Hell is asking him to stay with the signed contract to fight winky wright to much, or fight Paul williams too much. is asking him to accept a face to face verbal challenge at the time from margo too much? But what we get in return is Baldomir, Judah, Jmm, 34 year old dlh, and 38 yr old Mosley.

Come on bro. Lets think about his rationally and consistently with regards to other great fighters and what they accomplished.

[daggum]

Daggum, we are wasting our time. Every weak ass irrelvant excuse is being made, with no names for who mayweather beat.

i am 80 post deep and counting and not a name.

yes we are. they try to disparage real all time great fighters by lowering them to mayweather's level. but they fail. cotto and pac were mayweather's legacy fights and he avoided them. if *****s say they aren't natural welters then shouldn't that make them even easier to beat?

robinson beat the best guys around at 147. so did leonard. did floyd? no. mosley and baldomir weren't the best guys around no matter how hard you want to pretend they were. oh wait duran wasn't a natural welter he was a tiny lil person even though he won a 160 pound title and either was benitez cause he was 17 when he won the 140 pound title! also hearns was weight drained!

[wpink1]

Not gonna get into the rest of your longwinded history lesson but this was eye catching.

You asked, when did Floyd beat a 1. Natural, 2. Great, 3. Peak......opponent.

Yes you're asking him to face Paul Williams. Is P.Williams a Natural, Peak and Great opponent? Williams maybe natural & peak, but great?

So you're contradicting your own points.

I absolutely think Paul williams would be considered a great opponent. I am not saying alltime top pound peer pound great as this is where you would have a point as not all fighters have those opponents to face. Your right there is not a hagler today. However, you fight the best of your era. That is all you can do. is not Paul williams the best out there in the 147-154 range. Would he not be considered the biggest challenge of Mayweathers career. is this not as close to leoanrd hagler as mayweather can get?

[wpink1]

yes we are. they try to disparage real all time great fighters by lowering them to mayweather's level. but they fail. cotto and pac were mayweather's legacy fights and he avoided them. if *****s say they aren't natural welters then shouldn't that make them even easier to beat?

robinson beat the best guys around at 147. so did leonard. did floyd? no. mosley and baldomir weren't the best guys around no matter how hard you want to pretend they were. oh wait duran wasn't a natural welter he was a tiny lil person even though he won a 160 pound title and either was benitez cause he was 17 when he won the 140 pound title! also hearns was weight drained!

Funny how easy it is to factually destroy mayweather fans. I have asked repeatedly name one. fighter. and they are still stuttering. trying to attack robinson instead of answering the question. Cupocity, is bringing some boxing knowlege but he is giving excuses for Mayweather instead of simply accepting that there are good fighters for mayweather to fight today. He does not have to have hagler or duran. He has pacman, and Williams.

He is trying to switch the issue No one is saying mosley is not a good foe to have on your resume as having beat. What I am saying is when we go back and review Mayweather and compare feats of his vs feats of leonard or robinson, Mosley being 38 and having 5 losses in recenst history is not gonna be reason to rank Mayweathr up there with a leonard who beat duran, hagler, hearnd, benetiz....

[cupocity303]

cupacity, I will give you credit you seem to know boxing, and i repsect that. Thanks for the debatte with you, once it turned professional.

I think you understand my point. This is a matter of opinion outs will differ but at least your knowledgable and I respect that.

My point is yes there fighter that other greats have fought that met my (according to you) very tuff to meet criteria. it is just that Mayweathr for whatever reason has feasted on fighters that are not peak and at their best weight. Simply look at every opponent he has faced since Castillo. Sure they may be good fighters, but they are not like peak trinidad or peak Dlh, moslye. Or hearns, or haglr, or duran..etc. .

It's good that you mentioned peak Trinidad & Delahoya as your example. And seeing as how I now have pointed out that there was no way he was gonna catch a peak, natural, great Trinidad at Welterweight, you just proved my point.

There was also no way he was gonna get Delahoya at his abolute peak, seeing as how Floyd was still a small fighter when Delahoya was undefeated at Welterweight.

And since you're saying that he ducked Peak/Natura/Great opponents since Castillo, it's on you to point out who those fighters are, that were peak, great and natural all the same time.

So start naming them, and we'll decide whether they meet the criteria.

[Bhopreign]

Funny how easy it is to factually destroy mayweather fans. I have asked repeatedly name one. fighter. and they are still stuttering. trying to attack robinson instead of answering the question. Cupocity, is bringing some boxing knowlege but he is giving excuses for Mayweather instead of simply accepting that there are good fighters for mayweather to fight today. He does not have to have hagler or duran. He has pacman, and Williams.

He is trying to switch the issue No one is saying mosley is not a good foe to have on your resume as having beat. What I am saying is when we go back and review Mayweather and compare feats of his vs feats of leonard or robinson, Mosley being 38 and having 5 losses in recenst history is not gonna be reason to rank Mayweathr up there with a leonard who beat duran, hagler, hearnd, benetiz....

He will be ranked as high maybe higher.