Floyd fanz: what peak, great, natural welter has floyd beat?

[wpink1]

robinson beat fritzie zivic and kid gavilan both at least twice. both were all time great fighters in their prime at welterweight. baldomir and judah are close to their level......

I am assuming your joking...lol

[Bhopreign]

robinson beat fritzie zivic and kid gavilan both at least twice. both were all time great fighters in their prime at welterweight. baldomir and judah are close to their level......

They werent natural welters kid which is why TS never came back to the question, he's a bias hater.

[IronDanHamza]

[quote=wpink1;9177931]hearns who ko'd cuevas for the tiele was 32-0 30 ko's went on to win titles up to light heavy including beating a young virgil hill,and ko'ing duran.[/quote]

You see Duran wasn't in his natural weight class when Hearns knocked him out, hes in his 4th and final weight class, there way your talking one rule applys for one person and not the other.

I believe Hearns' KO of Duran was a great win on his resume, i have no issue with that part of your post. The only issue i have is one thing is allowed for one guy and not the other.

[cupocity303]

Ok good post...I will respond.

Well Thank you.

Long established champion is only one of the criteria that is used to measure a great fighter. Hearns nor leonard reigned as the welter champion for a long time, but because of their continued success at higher weight classes and the people that they beat (leonard) they are listed as all time great fighters.



Mayweather is a all time great talent. When he beat Corrales I thought he was on pace to be one of the greatest. However after he faced Castillo is seemd like he became risk aversive. Same thing with Roy jones after the Gerald mcClelan fight where Benn paralyzed him.

Leonards, Ali, robinsons are called great for challenging the best fighters of their era in their natural weight class or weight classes that they clearly were peak at or very good at. Leonard had to beat a duran who had beaten 8 welters already

But that's pure coincidence. Did Leonard actually wait for Roberto Duran to get a couple of fights in at Welterweight? Me thinks not, nobody is that calculating.

and carlos palimino, then SRL, and he continued to win titles at jr midle and middle vs younger fighters (davey moore and barkley). Leonard also beat hearns who ko'd cuevas for the tiele was 32-0 30 ko's went on to win titles up to light heavy including beating a young virgil hill,and ko'ing duran. Ray beat hagler after hagler was only 32, had not lost in 10 years, and just beat his best 3 opponents by ko.

Yes he beat Hagler in a controversial decision but that's irrelevant. The fact is that Leonard retired on and off for years, while Hagler kept establishing his Middleweight credentials further.

Again, this goes back to my Tito Trinidad point. Tito like Hagler at 160, was a long time Welterweight Champion and had accumulated multiple title defenses at 147, BUT he left before Floyd could catch him. So it's not Floyd's fault there was no Hagler-esque figure at Welterweight for him to beat. Margarito & Williams sure weren't it.

Mayweather has avoided the fights that would pose a serious risk to him. Many will point to Mosley, but come on, Mosly was 38 and had 5 losses in recent years, clearly was not peak. I am not saying mayweather willl not beeat pacman or williams, but he HAS TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO STEP IN THE RING TO PROVE IT. That is the benchmark every other fighter has had to follow that we consider an all time great.

This is just more standard Anti-Floyd talking points. The demand was there for him to fight Mosley. Even in 2009-2010, there were calls for him to face Mosley. If he hadn't faced him, it would be considered another DUCK. But now that he did, the response is that he beat a Old Mosley.

You can't have it both ways.

[wpink1]

They werent natural welters kid which is why TS never came back to the question, he's a bias hater.

I addressed this. I am NOT FOR THE 5TH TIME having all time great welterwight champ discussion. If so then yes we could have that debate. Amazing at how easy it is to totally destory you all and have you all running to irrelevant issues.

The ISSUE IS COMPARING MAYWEATHER VS OTHER GREATS. That is a resume of beating top fighters all time greats if they are avialable, at their peak or close and their natural wieght class or weight class that they have proven to be very good at.

is this simply hard to understand?

We chose welteweight for Mayweathr cus hmmm he may have been there since 2005.

I would think that simply asking to put up the top fighteres that Mayeather has beaten at welter since he has been there 5 years, is valid.

Now to simply shut you guys up. He fought jake lamotta twice when he was a welter and jake was actualy a jr middle and middle. This is what he did as a welter. But my point again is Ray Robinson beat top fighters at their peak weight , while they were peak, not all of his top victory's came vs 34 or 38 year olds

[daggum]

They werent natural welters kid which is why TS never came back to the question, he's a bias hater.

well i guess that depends on your definition of natural doesn't that. did they start their careers at 147 no. but if you actually look closer you will see they started their careers as teenagers. is your natural weight when you are a teenager? no of course not your natural weight is what you develop into as an adult. and you will see that by their early twenties both were fully fledged welterweights. that's also where they spent most of their careers and had the most success there. thus they are natural welterweights.

[wpink1]

Well Thank you.






But that's pure coincidence. Did Leonard actually wait for Roberto Duran to get a couple of fights in at Welterweight? Me thinks not, nobody is that calculating.





Yes he beat Hagler in a controversial decision but that's irrelevant. The fact is that Leonard retired on and off for years, while Hagler kept establishing his Middleweight credentials further.

Again, this goes back to my Tito Trinidad point. Tito like Hagler at 160, was a long time Welterweight Champion and had accumulated multiple title defenses at 147, BUT he left before Floyd could catch him. So it's not Floyd's fault there was no Hagler-esque figure at Welterweight for him to beat. Margarito & Williams sure weren't it.



This is just more standard Anti-Floyd talking points. The demand was there for him to fight Mosley. Even in 2009-2010, there were calls for him to face Mosley. If he hadn't faced him, it would be considered another DUCK. But now that he did, the response is that he beat a Old Mosley.

You can't have it both ways.

Was Mosley in 2009 peak. Yes or No. No one is not saying he should not have fought him. Your trying to get off the topic. The topic is WHO PEAK has mayweather beaten that was at their peak weight or even a weight class they were very good at. Please again we are over 70 deep and no names.

Just irrelevant arguements.

False also about no top welters for Mayweather to beat. There are. Pacman, and Williams are two names that like other all time top greats, that risked it, we should expect the same from mayweather, or does he get a pass.

All other fighters moved up too and had to take on the risks. DLh moved up from 130 and fought hopkins at 160. Leoanrd moved up and fought hagler, robinson fought many at 160 and even fought at 175. So are you suggesting Williams is too big. 6'1 147-150 too big. Then was not Hearns to big for Ray.

Again who peak has Mayweather beaten that was peak and at a weight class that they were great at.

This is getting hillarious watching all the excuses, but no names. Yes I provided names for SRL, and a name for Robinson. should i for dlh, mosley, duran Whitacker. etc. All have done it and moved up too.

[wpink1]

well i guess that depends on your definition of natural doesn't that. did they start their careers at 147 no. but if you actually look closer you will see they started their careers as teenagers. is your natural weight when you are a teenager? no of course not your natural weight is what you develop into as an adult. and you will see that by their early twenties both were fully fledged welterweights. that's also where they spent most of their careers and had the most success there. thus they are natural welterweights.

Daggum, we are wasting our time. Every weak ass irrelvant excuse is being made, with no names for who mayweather beat.

i am 80 post deep and counting and not a name.

[Ray*]

None because we dont have any great natural welterweight around in our era, If you think we do please name one.

[cupocity303]

Was Mosley in 2009 peak. Yes or No. No one is not saying he should not have fought him. Your trying to get off the topic. The topic is WHO PEAK has mayweather beaten that was at their peak weight or even a weight class they were very good at. Please again we are over 70 deep and no names.

Just irrelevant arguements.

False also about no top welters for Mayweather to beat. There are. Pacman, and Williams are two names that like other all time top greats, that risked it, we should expect the same from mayweather, or does he get a pass.

All other fighters moved up too and had to take on the risks. DLh moved up from 130 and fought hopkins at 160. Leoanrd moved up and fought hagler, robinson fought many at 160 and even fought at 175. So are you suggesting Williams is too big. 6'1 147-150 too big. Then was not Hearns to big for Ray.

Again who peak has Mayweather beaten that was peak and at a weight class that they were great at.

This is getting hillarious watching all the excuses, but no names. Yes I provided names for SRL, and a name for Robinson. should i for dlh, mosley, duran Whitacker. etc. All have done it and moved up too.

You are spinning in circles, my answer for you would be the same post I already gave (The one you said was good). No names will be given, since you framed it with three different categories, so that no name (in your mind anyway) will qualify.

And nobody is trying to get off topic, just sorting out some of the nonsense. You said he hasn't fought the best and I told you that he did, unless Mosley doesn't qualify as one of the best Welterweight around.

You named Duran as one of SRL's natural Welter victories, yet it was pure coincidence that Duran got a couple of 147 fights under his belt. SRL sure didn't think to himself (I better let Duran get a couple of Welterweight fights to establish himself, or else someone will think that I beat a blown up Lighweight). Pure coincidence that it turned out that way.

All interrelated to the longwinded rhetoric/talking points you're posting, thinking I'm not gonna notice it. But I did and I answered accordingly.

And again, it may not be the answer you're looking for (I.E. Give me a name.....screaming at the top of your lungs), but it's an Answer nonetheless.