Floyd fanz: what peak, great, natural welter has floyd beat?

[daggum]

Willam isn't a ww no more and besides him losing to quintana at ww probably didn't help his chances when he still was at ww.

PAC is the only real ww who is great or at his peak

Berto is decent and prime but not great till he proves it

no one else at ww nowdays

Who else could you argue he ducked? Cotto? HD was called out at 140 and declined

floyd called out cotto when cotto was a relative unknown with a couple wbo title defenses. but then when cotto was a big star at 147 and one of the best fighters in boxing floyd fake retired to avoid him. floyd only wanted to fight a guy when he knew he could beat him and when he became too good he no longer wanted to fight him.

even if thats not good enough for you how about this. floyd has called out(wwe style) lots of people that doesn't mean he wants to fight them. pac for example. what he says and what he does are very very different things.

[wpink1]

But you cant do the same for Robinson, go figure.

Waiting.... your silence is bliss.

[wpink1]

I already gave my answer to your thread question, and one that hasn't got a reply from you.


Now it may not be the answer you like, seeing as how you are trying to frame the question and move the goal post, that it's answerable.

But it has been answered. As already said, your debating abilities are rather weak and you get too emotional using weak "Gayweather" antics. Hand over your duties to someone more mature & effective.

I will review your answer and respond..one sec. If you have given names. then great...I will review and respond.

[Bhopreign]

Waiting.... your silence is bliss.

Youve been exposed hater.

[cupocity303]

I will review your answer and respond..one sec. If you have given names. then great...I will review and respond.

That would be you framing the question, which is what i was referring to.

But of course, I already knocked down your question, because you have added three different criterias, so nobody can be considered all three, because it's all subjective.

But keep fishing.

[wpink1]

Moving the goal post is a natural instinct of a weak debater.

That's three different criterias that Floyd obviously can't meet.

Natural and Peak? Yes. Great? not. Natural and Great in Mosley yes, but not peak.

The term great is also subjective. If we're talking about a long established Welterweight Champion, then there was none at the time of Floyd's arrival to 147. Trinidad was a great Welterweight and never lost his belt, but he moved up to 154.

Vernon Forrest was about to become a great Welter but lost to Mayorga. Spinks was a Lineal Champ but a flash in the pan, so was Judah and it wasn't Floyd's fault he blew it against Baldomir.

Ok good post...I will respond. Long established champion is only one of the criteria that is used to measure a great fighter. Hearns nor leonard reigned as the welter champion for a long time, but because of their continued success at higher weight classes and the people that they beat (leonard) they are listed as all time great fighters.

Mayweather is a all time great talent. When he beat Corrales I thought he was on pace to be one of the greatest. However after he faced Castillo is seemd like he became risk aversive. Same thing with Roy jones after the Gerald mcClelan fight where Benn paralyzed him.

Leonards, Ali, robinsons are called great for challenging the best fighters of their era in their natural weight class or weight classes that they clearly were peak at or very good at. Leonard had to beat a duran who had beaten 8 welters already and carlos palimino, then SRL, and he continued to win titles at jr midle and middle vs younger fighters (davey moore and barkley). Leonard also beat hearns who ko'd cuevas for the tiele was 32-0 30 ko's went on to win titles up to light heavy including beating a young virgil hill,and ko'ing duran. Ray beat hagler after hagler was only 32, had not lost in 10 years, and just beat his best 3 opponents by ko.

Mayweather has avoided the fights that would pose a serious risk to him. Many will point to Mosley, but come on, Mosly was 38 and had 5 losses in recent years, clearly was not peak. I am not saying mayweather willl not beeat pacman or williams, but he HAS TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO STEP IN THE RING TO PROVE IT. That is the benchmark every other fighter has had to follow that we consider an all time great.

[IronDanHamza]

I am not saying Herny armstorng was a prime win, I listed it as a great perosn he beat. Now keep in mind my man, that back then 80 fights was like 30 today. Rememer Robinson at one pong was 121-1-1. at age hmmm 33 i think. So simply knocking graziano for this being his 82nd fight is not legit.

hernry armstong was a old fighter, but the rest, including kid gavilan.. were vs top fighters and peak.

Thanks for the thoughtful response, one that these debaters i am debating on here are not able to do...

i am still waiting on the Mayweather list of names...hmmmmmm

Graziano was a beast when Robsinon fought him, im not talking nothing away from the win, its a world class victory, but it was the 2nd from last fight of fight of Grazianos career, and being in some brutal wars, no way on this earth was Graziano in the peak of his career when he fought Sugar Ray Robinson.

Pretty much like the Mosley Mayweather situation, I give both Robinson and Mayweather a ton of credit for beating world class beasts, coming off impressive KO victorys, both Mosley and Graziano wern't at there peak, but both are still impressive world class victories, in my opinion.

[wpink1]

That would be you framing the question, which is what i was referring to.

But of course, I already knocked down your question, because you have added three different criterias, so nobody can be considered all three, because it's all subjective.

But keep fishing.

Many people can be and are. Cotto, Williams, Pacman, Duran, Hearns, hagler, Mosley in 98, Dlh in 98, Whitacker when he fought chavez, Roy jones when he fought hopkins first, and then James toney. Ali's fights, trinidad vs DLH,

These are the type of fights that fighters take risks, and yes they are great, peak or close to it, and at either peak weight or weight that they clealry are very good at.

[daggum]

robinson beat fritzie zivic and kid gavilan both at least twice. both were all time great fighters in their prime at welterweight. baldomir and judah are close to their level......

[wpink1]

Graziano was a beast when Robsinon fought him, im not talking nothing away from the win, its a world class victory, but it was the 2nd from last fight of fight of Grazianos career, and being in some brutal wars, no way on this earth was Graziano in the peak of his career when he fought Sugar Ray Robinson.

Pretty much like the Mosley Mayweather situation, I give both Robinson and Mayweather a ton of credit for beating world class beasts, coming off impressive KO victorys, both Mosley and Graziano wern't at there peak, but both are still impressive world class victories, in my opinion.

I give mayweather credit for destorying Mosley too, but it is not the same as beating a 32-0 tommy hearns, or Mosley first beating dlh, or Jones whitwashing Toney.

Now someone can say, your cherry picking top fights. Are we not talkign about the discussion of Mayweather being on of the best fighters ever, and if so, should not the expectation that he does all time great things in the ring.

Having a 0, when you face the quality of opposition that Mayweathr has vs what he could have faced then comparing it to like what DLH faced, or Whitacker or SRL, or even Mosley is what I am talking about.

We are not talking about if Mayweather is great. He is great, but the discussion is all time top pound per pounder, then we should expect him to have a resume of accomplishments that rivals or compars favorably to others.

Am I right?