The Empty Seat Dilemma: Why So Many Top Fighters Can’t Sell Tickets

[Dick Buffman]

I guess thats why Berto,Williams,Martinez,Bradley are all draws right?

Those other guys weren't draws outside of Jones and Mayweather and those guys only became "draws" late in their career after years of money being invested in them by HBO.

Not because they were ever draws on their own or properly developed.

Mayweather couldn't even draw in Michigan.

[NesNY]

Boxers aren't public figures, and nobody really wants to see a boxing match. They wanna see a fight (hence the popularity of UFC/MMA).

Plus, it's almost impossible to know who's good or who sucks...when they have no exposure. You ask a street joe "hey, you know who Paul The Punisher Williams is?", and you'll get a weird face. "uhhh...didn't he play football?"

Boxing is dying, sadly, and it's because of the politics. There's also a lack of good businessmen in the sport.


Plus....the best fighters are fighting 1-3 times a year. That's ******. Baseball has over 160 games, basketball has 82, football has 16 Sundays.
Boxers....TWO ****ty times a year for a superstar boxer.

[Imhotep]

dawson, berto, paul williams, bradley... they can't get any fans because mayweather sucks up all the african american fight fans. these guys are playing second fiddle to mayweather, same as when rjj was the man, mayweather couldn't get any press. if pwill, berto, bradley want to become more high profile, they gotta challenge mayweather.

the same thing is happening with nonito. all the pinoy fans gravitate towards pacquiao so nonito is living in pac's shadow.

That`s of-course bull****.Floyd was able to get big mainly cause he fought big name opponents,the other reason cause his mouth.Berto,Williams,Bradley hav`nt got that opportunity.

[ИATAS]

last year tye fields had his edmonton debut.he fought nicolai firtha in an entertaining fight.he had a nice knockout in the 6th round.the undercard had several canadian title holders & the co-feature was cisse salif vs jason gavern.playboy centerfold for a ringcard girl & gerry cooney was a special guest who mingled with the crowd all night.big john maccarthy was one of the referees.it was sold out with a 2000 capacity & tickets were $50 each...good domestic card featuring 4 solid journeyman heavyweights & a mix of canadian talent.we have a decent domestic scene where other events at the palace banquet hall(500 capacity)take place.tickets are usually $30-40.fields fought here once & other local & canadian champs fight here.the wbc continental americas cw title fight was held here,tye fields vs galen brown was here,& a cancelled fight between local heavyweight sheldon hinton & zack page was to be here.the fights are always soldout.people need to see their local fighters on a regular basis to build a fan base.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. It's like that in Tacoma, WA too $25-$70 tickets, good entertaining cards (even though there aren't any stars typically) and it sells very well every single time.

I just don't undertsand why ESPN/HBO/Showtime and the promoters don't follow this type of model and go to smaller cities. It pains me to watch Friday Night Fights with nearly completely empty seats when there are venues all over that would be sold out. Plus it looks so bad for the sport. Someone flipping through the channels see's some boxing and sees no one in the stands they are going to automatically think it's a stinker of a fight.

[Imhotep]

Those other guys weren't draws outside of Jones and Mayweather and those guys only became "draws" late in their career after years of money being invested in them by HBO.

Not because they were ever draws on their own or properly developed.

Mayweather couldn't even draw in Michigan.

Are you sure ever seen Floyd fights in Michigans?They were sellouts or near sellouts so i don`t know what fights you seen that tells you Floyd can`t even draw in Michigan.

[Imhotep]

Boxers aren't public figures, and nobody really wants to see a boxing match. They wanna see a fight (hence the popularity of UFC/MMA).

Plus, it's almost impossible to know who's good or who sucks...when they have no exposure. You ask a street joe "hey, you know who Paul The Punisher Williams is?", and you'll get a weird face. "uhhh...didn't he play football?"

Boxing is dying, sadly, and it's because of the politics. There's also a lack of good businessmen in the sport.


Plus....the best fighters are fighting 1-3 times a year. That's ******. Baseball has over 160 games, basketball has 82, football has 16 Sundays.
Boxers....TWO ****ty times a year for a superstar boxer.

And none of these promoters want to spend the money to Promote the sport either.They are content with the one or few big name fighters they have.


Dana White has done a great job Promoting MMA and making it bigger then Boxing.He always load the PPV under-cards up with exciting Fighters while boxing promoters generally load up the PPV under-cards with Crap fighters which is not helping the sport grow.

[Sweet Jesus]

Yeah, that was in this months ring magazine.

Amazing how just how little of draws Dawson, Bradley, Williams, & Berto really are.

4 Americans. Maybe there is a lack of interest in the sport?

[brick wall]

hometown fighting is a proven formula but that's not all about it. hometown is meant for fighters at the start of their careers. you've got to create a good following in your hometown even before you think about taking the whole boxing world. there are of course other major aspects in a fighter's ability to sell tickets/ppv:

1. personality - there are few fighters who are lucky to have what we call charisma. but there are also other ways to increase your marketability even if you don't have the charm. trash talking have proven to be effective. even ridiculous things can be used by a fighter to sell himself to boxing fans. hamed was charismatic but his on and off ring antics was also effective. how many times have we heard the fans saying they hate this fighter but they watch his fights because they wanna see him lose. in boxing, having a villain personality sells but only a few are willing to do it.

2. fighting style - without a doubt offensive-minded fighters, punchers or knockout artists are the more exciting to watch for boxing fans. also, the fans love the gutsy fighters or the warriors in the ring.

3. management - choosing your manager and promoter is very important to a fighter's career. we've seen a lot of good and promising young fighters in the past who didn't make it big because they were either rushed to fight big fights and lose or they can't get the fights that can give them the needed exposures.

4. accomplishment - winners always have the upperhand of course. the more you win against quality opponents the better for your career and the more you get interests from boxing fans.

[Devils Advocate]

It’s hard to imagine that there’s an elephant in the room in the boxing business, where everything is either shoved down your throat or kept hidden like a secret of national importance, but there is one, and it’s this: Some of the best fighters in the world couldn’t draw flies to a garbage dump, to use the phrase, more or less, that Don King in better days once employed to describe the appeal of Evander Holyfield.

Many fight fans satisfy their fix watching fights on HBO or Showtime or ESPN, and as a result frequently don’t notice that the fighters they see time after time after time are playing to largely empty rooms in near-abandoned casinos. And it’s not just the journeymen or the neophytes or the guys on their way down — it’s guys you know and have seen a bunch of times.

It’s Paul Williams, who could sell out entire stadiums if you could charge his fans extra seats for their dedication to him, but as it is now couldn’t fill a phone booth if you spotted him John Goodman. According to THE RING, Williams is the seventh best fighter in the world, pound-for-pound.

The undefeated Chad Dawson, THE RING’S No. 1-rated light heavyweight who fights Jean Pascal for the magazine’s vacant 175-pound title on Saturday, isn’t much better than Williams when it comes to putting butts in seats. Dawson is No. 6 in THE RING’S pound-for-ound ratings.

There are others in similar boats: the excellent, undefeated Tim Bradley, fast becoming a star in the sport but who sells tickets like Wladimir Klitschko takes chances; Nonito Donaire, one of the best little men on the planet but one who would draw more live spectators as a horse jockey than a fighter; Andre Berto, maybe the best young 147-pounder in the game who couldn’t wrangle even the Haitian disaster into a higher profile, though not for lack of trying; and top-ranked cruiserweight Steve Cunningham, who said to hell with it and took his business to Europe, thank you very much.

Some of this has to do with fighting style. Most of these guys are boxers or boxer-punchers. And we all know who the sport’s biggest ticket sellers always have been. Think Dempsey. Think Louis and Marciano. Think Tyson. Scientists are anathema to the masses. Veterans recall that legendary matchmaker Teddy Brenner once was asked why he wouldn’t put the highly cerebral light heavyweight champion Harold Johnson on television.

Brenner is purported to have responded, “Harold Johnson represents perfection in the art of boxing, and there is no room in this world for perfection.”

Few would call any of today’s fighters perfect, but certainly they don’t have the style most fans find most appealing.

“People want to see knockouts, beat’em-down boxers, like my guy Alfredo Angulo,” Mike Criscio, who manages Dawson and Angulo, told THE RING. “Alfredo can sell 10 times as many tickets as Chad can because he goes out there and tries to take somebody’s head off, whereas Chad is more of a boxer than a big puncher.”

Fair enough. But Floyd Mayweather, whose style is so measured he makes most other fighters look like Luis Firpo in comparison, is, along with Manny Pacquiao, the biggest pay-per-view star in the business. Criscio said it’s because of how hard Mayweather has worked to make himself a star.

“Floyd Mayweather has a name. He built his name. He goes everywhere, where Chad, for instance, is more humble and he doesn’t like to show up at a lot of things. He’s more laid back where Floyd is more in your face,” Criscio said. “And I think Floyd’s doing it right. I think the more people that know you, the more tickets you’re going to sell. The more people know who you are, the better it is. It’s like pulling teeth sometimes with Chad to get him to go places.”

Criscio said all these guys who are good fighters have one thing in common: relatively passive personalities. And that hurts them.

It's not all about being in your face, Pacquaio has never been an in your face type of guy and neither was Arturo Gatti, for that matter neither was Miguel Cotto or Shane Mosley. Why the public has always clinged to these fighters is b/c of their willingness to put it all on the line. These men are no have all spilled blood and hit the deck plenty of times and they have all fought the best and been beaten by the best but they can all still see tickets. Floyd is an excellent self promoter. He knows what how to perform for the masses hes an Olympian. Floyd also doesn't drink alcohol or do drugs regardless of where he's at, he disiplinced. He has freakishly huge security everywhere he goes so he can perform all day everyday for his fans. Mayweather use to be in the same boat as the rest of those men until he fought Arturo Gatti and later was blessed with the opportunity to fight the Ultimate Cash Cow. Oscar blessed alot of fighters just by stepping in the ring with them and without Oscar alot of todays stars would be still generating mediocre ppv numbers.

[2501]

Dana White has done a great job Promoting MMA and making it bigger then Boxing.He always load the PPV under-cards up with exciting Fighters while boxing promoters generally load up the PPV under-cards with Crap fighters which is not helping the sport grow.

Dana White has promoted the brand, UFC, rather than the actual sport. This is why UFC fighters can have a ****load of L's on their record because UFC sells excitement over quality.