Had Martinez not vacated his title

[IMDAZED]

I think Martinez is actually bigger as there is no way in hell he could make 147, whereas Margarito still could (he might look like **** but he could still do it). I aggree that Martinez is more skilled but honestly I wish Margarito was facing Martinez instead of Pacquiao. I'm curious as to what would happen in that fight as I don't think it will turn out as most expect.

Honestly Martinez would Kill Manny at 154...so if you want to watch to see Manny destroyed then this is the fight for you.

And you base this on what exactly?

[Khalid X]

No Manny would not have faced him.............................on the same note, Floyd would not have either

Honestly to you blame them. There is a difference between being brave and being dumb and for Manny to take a fight with Martinez would be plain dumb. Now if Manny somehow walks to Tony, beats someone like Floyd or Shane in impressive fashion, then I will say he is ready for Martinez.

[Khalid X]

And you base this on what exactly?

His track record and just taking his word for it. I guess it's a wait and see thing but Tony has show the ability to get to WW whereas the is no chance in hell Martinez can. So In response to that guy who said Margarito is bigger than Martinez, I disagree on the sole face that the is a chance Tony can make WW (maybe it's a snowballs chance in hell but still a chance) whereas there is no way in Hell that Martinez can dip below 150 much less make WW.

[Anak ni Hudas]

margarito TKo'ed martinez? if pac wins against margarito then martinez will be a walked in the park...

[PittyPat]

Well you said he was frightened to face WW at their regular weight which is not true and an exageration.

If you say so, but to an outsider looking in - who was a fan of neither Pacquiao nor Cotto - it stank of fear (whether it was Roach telling his boy that it was too risky to let Cotto come in at 147 or whatever).

I'll give you the Cotto fight, but he proved his worth with a dominating performance over Clottey, a guy who beat Cotto and also was dominating Judah and beating Baldomir.

He didn't beat Cotto, though. It was a razor-thin decision which could've gone either way. I thought Clottey was robbed at the time, but then I looked at our good ol' 720p versions and slowed down the punches. About as close as decisions get.

And as for Margarito fight, Manny is not a LMW and I don't expect him to fight them. If he does that is on him and I can only look at it as a feather in his hat.

By default, nobody would expect someone of Pacquiao's size to fight at LMW (or even WW, 2 years ago), but when he voluntarily starts going up and fighting them, nobody should be lambasted for criticising the catchweight thing. If he really is too small to be fighting LMWs... well, there's a very simple solution to that:

He should fight some WWs or LWWs instead! There are plenty to choose from, and none of them by the name of Mayweather.

I don't see how weighing in at 150 affects Margarito.

It probably won't, but it's the principle of it. If Pacquiao is so eager to move up and collect these oh-so important divisional trinkets, he shouldn't have any qualms about letting his opponents come in at the limit. Otherwise, how can his fans get mad at people bringing into question his ATG legitimacy, when he's gone about grabbing these titles in a such a snakey way?

And you mentioned Ruiz at HW earlier, but what happened there? He let his opponent - the titleholder (regardless of his credentials) - come in over 30lbs heavier.

[IMDAZED]

His track record and just taking his word for it. I guess it's a wait and see thing but Tony has show the ability to get to WW whereas the is no chance in hell Martinez can. So In response to that guy who said Margarito is bigger than Martinez, I disagree on the sole face that the is a chance Tony can make WW (maybe it's a snowballs chance in hell but still a chance) whereas there is no way in Hell that Martinez can dip below 150 much less make WW.

That would make it no different than Martinez' chance of doing it. Margarito has been fighting at 147 since he was eighteen. He began having trouble making weight years ago and in between enjoying the fame of beating Cotto and preparing for Mosley, he really, really struggled to go back to 147. Then got the snot beat out of him. Now it's been a year and change and he's fighting at 154. How much you wanna bet you never see him at 147 again? The bottom line is that a Martinez fight was feasible as a Margarito fight--same with a Williams bout. Weight should not and would not have impeded either.

[mathed]

Honestly to you blame them. There is a difference between being brave and being dumb and for Manny to take a fight with Martinez would be plain dumb. Now if Manny somehow walks to Tony, beats someone like Floyd or Shane in impressive fashion, then I will say he is ready for Martinez.

I think a fight against Martinez is a dumb move. His team knows this and having Margs in house makes that decision all that much easier. Arum is greedy and keeping the money in house as well as keeping his cash cow away from a slick, taller, heavier, longer fighter is all at his advantage..Arum will not let Pac near Martinez anytime soon.

[mathed]

margarito TKo'ed martinez? if pac wins against margarito then martinez will be a walked in the park...

That was like 30 plus fights ago and likely Margs was sporting plaster then too (no evidence of course). Now, I'd say Martinez schools him, he was schooling him back then but lacked the experience to know when to tie up when in danger. The ref stopped the fight, Margs didn't KO him as the record suggests

[Khalid X]

If you say so, but to an outsider looking in - who was a fan of neither Pacquiao nor Cotto - it stank of fear (whether it was Roach telling his boy that it was too risky to let Cotto come in at 147 or whatever).

I think his team didn't have much confidence and it had nothing to do with Manny being afraid. I mean how can you honestly think Manny is/was afraid of Cotto when he laid on the ropes and let him tag him and also when Cotto was moonwalking toward the end...we really saw who was afraid of who....lol

He didn't beat Cotto, though. It was a razor-thin decision which could've gone either way. I thought Clottey was robbed at the time, but then I looked at our good ol' 720p versions and slowed down the punches. About as close as decisions get.

Well it was a close fight though and I agree with you. I don't think Clottey was robbed but I'm on the fence as to who really won.

By default, nobody would expect someone of Pacquiao's size to fight at LMW (or even WW, 2 years ago), but when he voluntarily starts going up and fighting them, nobody should be lambasted for criticising the catchweight thing. If he really is too small to be fighting LMWs... well, there's a very simple solution to that:

I honestly don't like the catchweight thing as I feel the same result will happen regardless. I do feel he is too small to fight LMW at this moment which is why I really wish this was at 147 for his WBO belts so I wouldn't have to log on here and read the constant complaining from various posters.

He should fight some WWs or LWWs instead! There are plenty to choose from, and none of them by the name of Mayweather.

Honestly Margarito is better than anyone I can think of right now. Margarito beats down Bradley and Berto and I wish a fight with them could happen to shut those you think otherwise up.

It probably won't, but it's the principle of it. If Pacquiao is so eager to move up and collect these oh-so important divisional trinkets, he shouldn't have any qualms about letting his opponents come in at the limit. Otherwise, how can his fans get mad at people bringing into question his ATG legitimacy, when he's gone about grabbing these titles in a such a snakey way?

I don't think any of his fans are seriously defending this. You have extremist (not to say names) who defend Manny, and then you have guys like me who really aren't serious and just b.s. in his defense for ****s n giggles.

And you mentioned Ruiz at HW earlier, but what happened there? He let his opponent - the titleholder (regardless of his credentials) - come in over 30lbs heavier.

If we are being real with ourselves then we would realize that Ruiz wasn't as legit of a threat at HW as Margarito is at JMW. I know this will make most people mad but I honestly see Margarito giving Manny real problems at that weight. I got Manny winning this but all I'm saying is Roy was easy money over Ruiz whereas Manny will have to work to get this victory (unless Tony is really that shot or Manny is really that good).

[Khalid X]

That would make it no different than Martinez' chance of doing it. Margarito has been fighting at 147 since he was eighteen. He began having trouble making weight years ago and in between enjoying the fame of beating Cotto and preparing for Mosley, he really, really struggled to go back to 147. Then got the snot beat out of him. Now it's been a year and change and he's fighting at 154. How much you wanna bet you never see him at 147 again? The bottom line is that a Martinez fight was feasible as a Margarito fight--same with a Williams bout. Weight should not and would not have impeded either.

I see the point you are making and I agree. Me even making that comparison was in response to who is bigger. You might be right and we may never see Tony at 147 but if there was a chance of either making it I would favor Margarito over Martinez ....which is why, with all things considered, I feel Martinez is the bigger man.

Now I feel that when you combine Martinez size along with his speed, then it's obvious as to why Top Rank would not chose him at this time. Margarito is way bigger than Manny. Martinez is not only bigger but way faster than Tony and has a longer reach making a fight with Manny a very bad move at this moment. Maybe in a year or so...but definitely not right now.