Most dominant Eastern European?

[rochemback]

Easily the Klitschkos.
Dzinziruk is not dominating his division and the others are still sort of prospects, even if Pirog already has a title.

[boxasmash]

if the logic is buster beat a prime mike then there is no point to discuss. Mike's loss to buster was a fluke because buster's mom had just died and mike's whole life was in turmoil. every fighter you point out was post buster when mike was done.

The night mike fought spinks, no offense, but wlad ****s his pants on the way to the ring. When mike had rooney in his corner no way klitchkos beat him. Mike did'nt KO those fighters but they all have a better chin than Wlad. Thats the whole point. Wlad will get hit and he wont be able to take it.

Why? because he beat up Light Heavyweight?

[The Big Dunn]

So that's the excuse you use for Mike: "hey don't count the Douglas loss, Buster's mom died and he became superman all of a sudden. Oh, and don't count his other 5 losses because he was not in his prime." Sad, really sad.

Well then don't count Wlad's losses either - Purrity he was just a young kid who punched himself out, he underestimated Sanders, and was drugged against Brewster. Vitaly never lost for real, tore his shoulder against Byrd, and the doctor stopped his fight against Lewis when he was up on the cards. You see how that works?

Your 1st paragraph makes no sense at all. If you are only focusing on mike post prison then I think it skews the argument the same as if you only view mike pre prison. I never mentioned wlad's losses did I? The reason I said wlad loses is because his chin is weak. You have yet to address that point.

[WladIsTheChamp]

Why? because he beat up Light Heavyweight?

Seriously, as if beating a much older man who fought two weight classes lower than Tyson for most of his career, is somehow a great achievement. Spinks only fought 5 fights at HW, his other fights he was fighting at 168-172.

[The Big Dunn]

Why? because he beat up Light Heavyweight?

Becasue at that point he still brought the intimidation factor to the ring big time. I think that helped him tremendously. Like I said Wlad has all the tools to beat mike, except his chin is too weak. If mike hits him with the same uppercut he hit Jose Ribalta with wlad is done. You know this as well as I do.

[Allucard]

I just wanted to say Pirog fights like a white Kostya Tszyu Now seriously a good fking fighter. Just don't get over your heads yet, he beat a good prospect, he needs more fights at that level vs that kind of good opposition. If he decides to pull a retreat back to mother russia, he'll lose allot of hype!

[WladIsTheChamp]

Your 1st paragraph makes no sense at all. If you are only focusing on mike post prison then I think it skews the argument the same as if you only view mike pre prison. I never mentioned wlad's losses did I? The reason I said wlad loses is because his chin is weak. You have yet to address that point.

You have yet to address your point that Wlad's chin is weak. What are your reasons for this? Right, you are going to bring in Wlad's losses to make your point. So that's why I am making excuses for his losses just like you are making excuses for Tyson's losses. Do you not get the point of the first paragraph now?

Why is it that you can easily excuse Tyson's losses by saying subjective things like: "Buster Douglas was superman that night because his mom just died. Oh, don't count Tyson's losses post prison, he was not in his prime anymore." But then you hold Wlad's losses against him and say that his chin is weak? I say a loss is a loss, you need to take the fighter's entire career into perspective, not just his "prime" because then I can take Wlad's undefeated streak in the early 90's or from 2005 until now, which beats the hell out of Tyson's measily 2 years of domination.

Tyson was weak mentally, a fighter's mental state also needs to be taken into consideration. So it was Tyson that allowed himself to be affected pre-prison and lose to Douglas, it was Tyson who got convicted of **** and sent to prison, and it was Tyson who couldn't climb back post-prison mentally.

Wlad had his low point in his career but he was strong enough mentally to come back and become a dominant champ again. That's the difference. You saying that Wlad would "**** his pants" is irrelevant because judging by the actions of both men, it seems that it would be Tyson who is mentally weaker than Wlad.

[WladIsTheChamp]

I just wanted to say Pirog fights like a white Kostya Tszyu Now seriously a good fking fighter. Just don't get over your heads yet, he beat a good prospect, he needs more fights at that level vs that kind of good opposition. If he decides to pull a retreat back to mother russia, he'll lose allot of hype!

Kosty Tszyu was white...

[The Big Dunn]

You have yet to address your point that Wlad's chin is weak. What are your reasons for this? Right, you are going to bring in Wlad's losses to make your point. So that's why I am making excuses for his losses just like you are making excuses for Tyson's losses. Do you not get the point of the first paragraph now?

Why is it that you can easily excuse Tyson's losses by saying subjective things like: "Buster Douglas was superman that night because his mom just died. Oh, don't count Tyson's losses post prison, he was not in his prime anymore." But then you hold Wlad's losses against him and say that his chin is weak? I say a loss is a loss, you need to take the fighter's entire career into perspective, not just his "prime" because then I can take Wlad's undefeated streak in the early 90's or from 2005 until now, which beats the hell out of Tyson's measily 2 years of domination.

Tyson was weak mentally, a fighter's mental state also needs to be taken into consideration. So it was Tyson that allowed himself to be affected pre-prison and lose to Douglas, it was Tyson who got convicted of **** and sent to prison, and it was Tyson who couldn't climb back post-prison mentally.

Wlad had his low point in his career but he was strong enough mentally to come back and become a dominant champ again. That's the difference. You saying that Wlad would "**** his pants" is irrelevant because judging by the actions of both men, it seems that it would be Tyson who is mentally weaker than Wlad.

His lost because his chin was weak. But I'm not saying he lost to x so he loses to mike. IMO, and I think wlad's career supports this, his chin is not sturdy.

I can respect your point about losses but in Tyson's loss to Buster BOTH boxers fought differently then they had in any fight prior to that. It was by all agreement an anomaly on both sides, Buster himself even notes this when discussing the impact his moms death had on the fight. Buster got up from mike's best punch. WLad doesn't get up! So even if you go by just the Buster fight, wlad still gets hit and IMO doesn't survive.

As far as mentally tougher, I don't know if Wlad can handle all that comes with being the most popular athlete in the world. Obviously, Mike couldn't handle it. But could Wlad ever make it to the point tha he was bigger than Jordan or Ali or Pele? Respect your point but you have to put it in some sort of perspective.

Either way Wlad isn't taking any flush punches from Mike Tyson. You may not admit it but I think you know it.

[WladIsTheChamp]

His lost because his chin was weak. But I'm not saying he lost to x so he loses to mike. IMO, and I think wlad's career supports this, his chin is not sturdy.

I can respect your point about losses but in Tyson's loss to Buster BOTH boxers fought differently then they had in any fight prior to that. It was by all agreement an anomaly on both sides, Buster himself even notes this when discussing the impact his moms death had on the fight. Buster got up from mike's best punch. WLad doesn't get up! So even if you go by just the Buster fight, wlad still gets hit and IMO doesn't survive.

As far as mentally tougher, I don't know if Wlad can handle all that comes with being the most popular athlete in the world. Obviously, Mike couldn't handle it. But could Wlad ever make it to the point tha he was bigger than Jordan or Ali or Pele? Respect your point but you have to put it in some sort of perspective.

Either way Wlad isn't taking any flush punches from Mike Tyson. You may not admit it but I think you know it.

No way, first, Tyson doesn't even touch Wlad. Second, that weak chin thing is a myth. Wlad doesn't have a weak chin. What are you going to use to support that?

Oh, and Wlad is on the level of Jordan or Pele at this point when it comes to boxing. Him and his brother are practically deities in Germany and Ukraine. The guy has 14 million Germans tuning.