David Haye was never "undisputed" cruiserweight champion, he ducked Steve Cunningham

[Grimmer]

Then Wladimir Klitschko with the Ring, WBO, IBF, and IBO titles is the "undisputed" heavyweight champion?

Nah 'cause the IBO doesn't count and the WBO at Heavyweight is pretty meaningless I think Wlad's the best champ to ever hold it. Usually I'd say the parameters for being undisputed relies on having at least 3 of the (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO) (Preferably the WBA, WBC and IBF). Of course as illustrated above by JK1700, you could get a scenario where someone like Berto could end up with 3 belts without fighting Pacquaio, so it's a rather ambiguous topic.

Personally though I do think Haye was the best in the division at the time, he did get up off the floor to KO Mormeck in Paris and then he beat Enzo, who at the time was considered a legitimate player in the division, know one really considered him a bum until he started losing left, right and centre, after the Haye loss.

[The Hammer]

Cunningham and Adamek were the top fighters in the CW division along with Haye. Then you put down Wlodarczyk.

What the fuck for?

Wlodarczyk was IBF champion BEFORE Haye ever had a cruiserweight title, even though he's younger than the Gayemaker!

He's only lost one close decision to Cunningham. He has an excellent chin and can punch.

Haye avoided durable fighters like Wlodarczyk.

Haye's opponents (like the notoriously glass-chinned Gurov and Enzo) had all been stopped before.

[PittyPat]

To be fair to Haye (which is an extremely difficult task, considering his track record), Adamek had only had 2 non-title fights at CW by the time Haye had moved to HW - at which point the Cunningham fight took place. It's likely that Haye had already set his sights on the division HW long before Adamek started to find his feet at CW (i.e. following the Maccarinelli fight).

Yes, obviously the right thing for Haye to have done would've been to stay at the weight and defend his unified titles against Adamek, but that's a different story. The lack of defences, however, makes me unable to hold his CW reign in very high regard. He accomplished the bare minimum at that weight, but didn't become a fraud until he began his antics at HW.

As for Cunningham, he was getting smacked around the ring by Adamek and ended up being knocked down 3 or 4 times. I think Haye would've finished him off with the superior speed that he has compared to that of both fighters. I like Cunningham a lot and madly respect his skills, but he would've come up short against Haye's combination of power and speed.

[Grimmer]

I view Wladimir Klitschko as the heavyweight champion of the world, Haye and Vitali are title-holder, but in my eyes Wlad is the champ. And you can't be the champ until you defeat the champ in the ring.

There's a case that even Wlad is a "champ".

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=391203

It's a good read.

[The Hammer]

Id definitely say so. Neither Vitali or Haye are interested in fighting him for different reasons, so what is there to dispute?

But Haye is demanding the bigger split. He says Wlad's offer of 50-50 and no options isn't good enough, he wants ALL the PPV revenue (Wlad is on free TV in Germany).

Is that how you negotiate with an undisputed champion?

You'd think 50-50 is a more than fair offer from Wlad.

[javelin_fangs]

David Haye always says he was the "undisputed" cruiserweight champion.

But he had only TWO world title fights at that weight.

The first was against the fading Jean Marc Mormeck, who was shot after his two wars with O'Neil Bell.

The second was against the paper champion, delicate-chinned Enzo Maccarinelli, who had been previously KOed by the low-level clubfighter Swaby.

He never fought the best PRIME cruiserweights at that time:

1. The IBF Champion, Steve Cunningham, who has a style that Haye wouldn't have been able to deal with.

2. Tough and skillful Tomasz Adamek.

3. Hard-punching and durable Krzysztof Wlodarczyk, who is a year younger than Haye and has never been stopped.

David Haye is a fraud.

There never really was a plan for Cunningham or Adamek to fight Haye. They were always angling for other fights. Adamek wanted to fight Bell and he did. Then his goal was to fight Cunningham and he did. Cunningham just had a lot of trouble getting fights because of the DKP situation. You can't blame that on Haye. Though I would like to see him fight Adamek sometime very soon.

[WladIsTheChamp]

mormeck wasn't "shot".. give him some credit, he beat Bell in the rematch. Maccrinelli had a china chin but still had power, he's shot now, but it was a big fight in the UK, first time we had an all british unification in a while.

Haye would have KO'd Cunningham. He had too much speed and power. Cunningham didn't have much power, Haye had a suspect chin but i think Haye would have got to Cunningham first.

Wlod wasn't in Haye's league.

Haye unified and moved up in weight, deal with it. He was ranked as undisputed champ, end of.

Diva Gaye is a vagina running from the Klitschkos hiding behind that fake @ss belt that doesn't even belong to him...deal with it. End of.

[Estar]

Then Wladimir Klitschko with the Ring, WBO, IBF, and IBO titles is the "undisputed" heavyweight champion?

IBO

[WladIsTheChamp]

Nah 'cause the IBO doesn't count and the WBO at Heavyweight is pretty meaningless I think Wlad's the best champ to ever hold it. Usually I'd say the parameters for being undisputed relies on having at least 3 of the (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO) (Preferably the WBA, WBC and IBF). Of course as illustrated above by JK1700, you could get a scenario where someone like Berto could end up with 3 belts without fighting Pacquaio, so it's a rather ambiguous topic.

Personally though I do think Haye was the best in the division at the time, he did get up off the floor to KO Mormeck in Paris and then he beat Enzo, who at the time was considered a legitimate player in the division, know one really considered him a bum until he started losing left, right and centre, after the Haye loss.

Well Wlad already has the WBA title.

[The Hammer]

IBO

WBA is a worse joke than IBO these days. It's the most corrupt sanctioning organization of them all.