Is Mayweather the quickest AND most "accurate" boxer in history?

[hectari]

Whoops!

Sorry dude, but I missed this question the first time by. To answer your first question, I'm sure I've seen more, but I currently have only three fights of Pep's in my possession (and unfortuntely, they're all of him past his prime...after the plane crash). I have about seven rounds of his fourth fight with Saddler, about four rounds of a fight against Savoie, and the his fight against Cardelli.

I've seen enough of a post-prime, Pep to see that he still had great skills even after the crash. Your judging Pep strictly on ONE fight against a fighter who is considered one of the greatest featherweights of all-time? Tell you what, since it's a practice that's a little easier to do...Watch Ali vs. Cleveland Williams and then watch Ali vs. Joe Frazier, and notice how much better Ali looks against the inferior opponent in Williams. It's funny how fighting a fellow great fighter makes you look less dominating, isn't it?

Even though he was past it in those fights that I have, Pep still displays excellant defensive skills, as he still had loads of that ability. He ducks, he slips, he frequently side-steps left and right, he blocks, he feints, he parrys...that's only a few of the things he did to make himself elusive, and he did all of those things while still having excellant quickness.

*Edit*

Oh, and yes I've seen fighters from that era who "counter punched as solid" as Marquez or Mayweather...For one , have you ever heard of or even saw the great lightweight from that era, Ike Williams?

^yes and Sandy Saddler got beat by Flash elorde! styles make fights and floyd has that adaptable style he is the most complete fighter out right now! the only way he can lose is when he gets older and loses some of the reflexes and quick steps.

[hectari]

Hey, you don't know what's going to happen to Floyd in the future. You may 'think' you do, but that's all guesswork, my friend, and it's no different that what the writers thought of Camacho's future. Not only was Camacho deemed to be the #2 ranked P4P fighter in 1985 (behind Hagler), but he was also thought to be the most likely heir apparent to take over the number one spot in the P4P rankings. That's all because in his first 30 (or so) fights, Camacho diplayed great skills and had a few dominating performances against good competition (I have his fights vs, Limon and Ramirez, and he thoroughly DOMINATES both of those guys with his speed, and is BARELY even touched in the process).

Mayweather has only had , what 33 or 34 fights so far? That's basically the same amount of fights that Camacho had when he was deemed for future greatness. And like I said, you don't really know what's in store for Floyd's future. Just like Camacho's out of the ring problems (mostly drugs) never enabled him to reach the heights that were expected of him, there's that chance Mayweather's out of the ring problems (his troubles with the law) also become his undoing.

At this point in their careers, my comparision of Camacho and Mayweather, is a lot more accurate than your comparision of Mayweather to one of the ten greatest fighters of all-time, in Willie Pep.

Can you post some of camachos fights please if you can or find a link cause I never seen that limon fight maybe if I see what you are saying and compare it to the gatti fight.

[Yogi]

^yes and Sandy Saddler got beat by Flash elorde! styles make fights and floyd has that adaptable style he is the most complete fighter out right now! the only way he can lose is when he gets older and loses some of the reflexes and quick steps.

Well, Flash Elorde has been inducted into the IBHOF, so I don't see that as such a negative against Saddler. Elorde is also considered one of the greatest Asian fighters of all-time, and some even consider him the greatest Filipino fighter of all-time.

Flash Elorde was a national hero in his homeland, but that's not the only place he was popular...In his time he was popular wolrdwide! One of the more exciting fighters of that era, as he dazzled fans with his hand speed, volume punching (an excellant body puncher), footwork, and overall boxing skill. The biggest drawback with Elorde was his tendency to be inconsistent from one fight to the next (great one fight...not close to being so the next fight). But when Flash Elorde was on...Well, he was good enough to beat Sandy Saddler and also give him major trouble in the rematch (Elorde was ahead before getting stopped late and I think that was because of a cut).

[Yogi]

Can you post some of camachos fights please if you can or find a link cause I never seen that limon fight maybe if I see what you are saying and compare it to the gatti fight.

Sorry dude, but I don't really keep that many fights on my computer (don't have the stuff neccessary to convert them over), and most/all of my fights are on tape.

But if you're that interested, I suppose I can copy a tape for you, with both of those Camacho fights that I mentioned on it(vs. Limon and Ramirez).

[hectari]

Sorry dude, but I don't really keep that many fights on my computer (don't have the stuff neccessary to convert them over), and most/all of my fights are on tape.

But if you're that interested, I suppose I can copy a tape for you, with both of those Camacho fights that I mentioned on it(vs. Limon and Ramirez).

Thnx man but I found someone online who has the fight hopefully ill be able to download it.

ok Flash was a great fighter when he really focused! but look at how many losses his has and Sandy Saddler lost to him? come on man these fighters of the past were good in there time but you have to admit fighters are far more advanced.

[oldgringo]

The quickest defensively that I've ever personally seen is Pernell Whitaker. Just his feints and ability to slip punches were rediculous.

Offensively it has to go to Mel Taylor. If Julio Caesar Chavez weren't around then Mel would have dominated that 140-147 pound weight divison for a long time. Quickest hands in combination punching I've ever seen. Leonard could whip off some quick 5 punch, 6 punch combos too but not like Mel Taylor. That mans heart was too big for his own good.

EDIT: In terms of accuracy I'd have to say that Alexis Arguello was one of the most accurate power punchers that I've ever seen. He was like a surgeon with his punches and when he set up his crosses they were like straight arrows.

[Boxclever]

No he's not.

[Bombardier]

No he's not.

boxclever, you're really just Anorak having a little fun with us, aren't you? You can tell me, I won't say nothin'.

[Yogi]

Thnx man but I found someone online who has the fight hopefully ill be able to download it.

ok Flash was a great fighter when he really focused! but look at how many losses his has and Sandy Saddler lost to him? come on man these fighters of the past were good in there time but you have to admit fighters are far more advanced.

Strange things happen to a fighter's win/loss record when he has well over 100 fights, eh? And weren't you the one who mentioned that Floyd nearly lost to Castillo because of him not watching video of him before? Well, with the exception of the fights from the Gillette series (the old Friday night series from the 50's), it's not like there was much video available for those fighters back in them days (unlike today, where you can find a ton of stuff on your upcoming opponent).

Oh, and no, I don't "have to admit fighters are far more advanced" in today's game. ****, I've about done this argument to death over my many years, but the only thing I see as being more advanced, is the presentation of today's fights. Try turning off both the sound and the colour when comparing numerous fights between the fighters of the 40's/50's and today...That'll give you more accuracy when comparing the fighters/eras.

I find today's fighters throw more flashy combinations, and use the ring more (which could be attributed to them fighting less rounds than the older guys), but as a whole they've basically given up the art of body punching and have gone head hunting crazy (a product of today's amatuer system). Along with the absent of body punching, I also don't see the inside fighting abilty today that the fighters of yesteryear had. Nor do I see today's fighters being as versatile in their abilty to both box from the outside and fight on the inside (most modern fighters fight either one way or the other). Today's fighter have also seemed to abandoned the simple and lost art of parrying an opponent's punches, and it's very rare to see a modern fighter do that.

There's the odd exception to every rule for both the modern fighters and the ones from the older day, but those are just a few of the things I've noticed when watching fights from each of the eras.

[2nd II none]

I'd say he's not the quickest but he's definately one of the top 5 guys in the history of boxing.