Reasonable doubt....PEDs

[AFighter4U]

Does steroid make you impotent? Skeptics are implying he started roiding early in his career around the time he met up with roach until now. If the question is a yes then there is no truth to it cause he had children late in his career.

[Lorily]

For me, id like them all to be tested. Kahn gained a bunch of points in my book when he said "id gladly take the test"

I'm not saying that Manny is juicing, I'm just pointing out my doubts based on the suspect facts. Manny didn't help it by refusing to be tested/ 1001 excuses why he can't,shouldn't and doesn't have to test.

Another thing is, I don't think a fighter should be downed or critisized for wanting better testing. If a fighter wants better testing I feel he should be seen a up and up fighter, and if a fighter refuses then he should know what comes with that.

But I applaude Kahn for saying he'd do it, by him saying that my doubts are lessend but I still have them of all fighters till these test become mandatory.

So, Kahn gets points just for saying he would "take the tests", but saying and doing are two different things entirely. If you recall, at the beginning of negotiations Pac representatives agreed upon testing - the sticking point was the ammount of testing and when. We can debate the word "random" all day long, the point is that they initially agreed to testing. IMO everything went to **** when both sides went public with the negotiations. To set the record straight, I am NOT accusing Kahn of taking steroids, but I do not get the arguement of Kahn getting points for merely stating he would take the test, that it somehow makes him less suspect than Pac - just because the negotiations could not be worked out between the Pac/FMJ parties does not indicate that Pac flat out refused to be tested.
Every fighter already knows they are going to be subject to a (urine) test after their fights, yet some still continue to get caught using a banned substance... why is that? The most common arguement over testing not being "random" seems to be 'If you know when you're going to get tested, only an idiot would use.' It still boggles my mind that Ali Funeka took hydroclorothiazide (water pill) knowing that post fight testing would find it. All the while, the irony of his opponent coming in 10 pds. overweight. Who knows why any of these guys do what they do, but yet they do. Common sense would say you know you're gonna get tested, don't use it... yet they do it anyway. The point is, everyone does everything differently. You can't honestly say you know what's going on in Pac mind, and that he thinks and acts the same way you, me or anyone else would.
As for the rest of your post, I think you will find so much resistance because this arguement is so played out. But now some seem to think Pac is this big headed green-eyed steriod using monster that couldn't win against a blow up doll without using Arizas special shakes, and ALL of his past accomplishments are now in question in their mind. It just goes too far. Let's just leave it to the perspective camps to work out negotiations and hope that we all get the fight that we really want. Some fans (on both sides) will debate this issue to the bitter end as if their life depends on it. Meanwhile, Mayweather/Pac and co. will go on with their own lives.
This is just my two cents worth.

[thatnickuh]

I never run and hide sir, ever. I just don't really have tolerance with dumbass dudes like you.

Judging by all the namecalling and tough guy acting I see here, you guys take this internet stuff too personally. Each time that I've addressed you it has been to debate the topic at hand. I try not make personal attacks. My posts are clear and to the point. Seems to me as if you're copping out. I stand by what I said. As far as I can tell when faced with points that you can't refute or give a smart-*ss answer to, you don't respond. Yet, here you are in this topic arguing this guy down over nothing. I just find that to be funny.

[cixthree]

So, Kahn gets points just for saying he would "take the tests", but saying and doing are two different things entirely. If you recall, at the beginning of negotiations Pac representatives agreed upon testing - the sticking point was the ammount of testing and when. We can debate the word "random" all day long, the point is that they initially agreed to testing. IMO everything went to **** when both sides went public with the negotiations. To set the record straight, I am NOT accusing Kahn of taking steroids, but I do not get the arguement of Kahn getting points for merely stating he would take the test, that it somehow makes him less suspect than Pac - just because the negotiations could not be worked out between the Pac/FMJ parties does not indicate that Pac flat out refused to be tested.
Every fighter already knows they are going to be subject to a (urine) test after their fights, yet some still continue to get caught using a banned substance... why is that? The most common arguement over testing not being "random" seems to be 'If you know when you're going to get tested, only an idiot would use.' It still boggles my mind that Ali Funeka took hydroclorothiazide (water pill) knowing that post fight testing would find it. All the while, the irony of his opponent coming in 10 pds. overweight. Who knows why any of these guys do what they do, but yet they do. Common sense would say you know you're gonna get tested, don't use it... yet they do it anyway. The point is, everyone does everything differently. You can't honestly say you know what's going on in Pac mind, and that he thinks and acts the same way you, me or anyone else would.
As for the rest of your post, I think you will find so much resistance because this arguement is so played out. But now some seem to think Pac is this big headed green-eyed steriod using monster that couldn't win against a blow up doll without using Arizas special shakes, and ALL of his past accomplishments are now in question in their mind. It just goes too far. Let's just leave it to the perspective camps to work out negotiations and hope that we all get the fight that we really want. Some fans (on both sides) will debate this issue to the bitter end as if their life depends on it. Meanwhile, Mayweather/Pac and co. will go on with their own lives.
This is just my two cents worth.

Damn dude, BREEEETH! Chill out for a sec.
All I said was I give him credit for atleast "saying" he'd take the test, I never gave him a complete pass.
As for it being played out, you're rite. Its pretty played out but it is still interesting how the guy wanting the test is labled as scared/coward/bad for boxing, I just don't see that.

But yes, Mannys history IS in question. Can he perform as he has before while under OSDT?
Ariza has added to the mix by saying "Manny has no idea what he takes"
But like I say, all fighters will be suspect till its mandatory. Kahn don't get a complete pass but I do give him credit for saying he'd do it.

[cixthree]

you're ****** because you're trying to pass on speculations as facts...duh

Oh ok, so Freddy never knew Toney was roiding, that's speculation? Oh wait, you must mean the part where I said "Manny has no idea what he takes"?. Nooo, you mean the part where Arum admits he knew about Oscars results, when and how many time, is that the speculation I'm trying to pass as facts?
The other things I've seen with my own eyes so that can be taken as speculation yes.

That's cute, my daughter says "duh" to.

[Gutz]

You may be rite, but tell me these facts are false.

They are false..


and youre a dumb ass..

[Lorily]

Damn dude, BREEEETH! Chill out for a sec.
All I said was I give him credit for atleast "saying" he'd take the test, I never gave him a complete pass.
As for it being played out, you're rite. Its pretty played out but it is still interesting how the guy wanting the test is labled as scared/coward/bad for boxing, I just don't see that.

But yes, Mannys history IS in question. Can he perform as he has before while under OSDT?
Ariza has added to the mix by saying "Manny has no idea what he takes"
But like I say, all fighters will be suspect till its mandatory. Kahn don't get a complete pass but I do give him credit for saying he'd do it.

"Dude", I'm breathing just fine. If you don't want to hear a difference of opinion, and you only want folks who think like you to respond then you need to post that in your title. The way you talk in your responses makes you sound like you think you are the judge, juror and executioner. FACT is, not everyone thinks like you. You should take your own advice and chill.

[cixthree]

"Dude", I'm breathing just fine. If you don't want to hear a difference of opinion, and you only want folks who think like you to respond then you need to post that in your title. The way you talk in your responses makes you sound like you think you are the judge, juror and executioner. FACT is, not everyone thinks like you. You should take your own advice and chill.

You seem like an angry Guy to be honest. It may only seem that way to you because I state facts, I'm no judge/jury ect. I just state facts and I stand by that.
If you took the time to read what I write as a whole, you'd see this. But people tend to stop where they don't agree and comment on that part. I can tell you mustve done that cause you came at me kinda sideways in your reply about me giving props to Kahn. Its the keywords you must pay attention to.

[brick wall]

Oh ok, so Freddy never knew Toney was roiding, that's speculation? Oh wait, you must mean the part where I said "Manny has no idea what he takes"?. Nooo, you mean the part where Arum admits he knew about Oscars results, when and how many time, is that the speculation I'm trying to pass as facts?
The other things I've seen with my own eyes so that can be taken as speculation yes.

That's cute, my daughter says "duh" to.

i'll break it down slowly so you would get what i'm trying to say. ok so toney took peds...he got caught so i'll give that to you it's a fact. roach was his trainer...fact. you said roach knew toney was roiding...fact maybe i don't know. even if he knew so what? toney is a big guy who can definitely decide for himself? does he needed to be adviced whether or not to take peds? does his history of taking peds automatically transfers to his trainer? and now you're trying to connect toney's peds use to pac because he has roach as trainer too...that's pure speculation right there and it's ******.

next one...ariza said pac has no idea what he takes, so? if ariza is feeding pac steroids you think he would say something like that in public? it's ****** to give out hint when you're doing something illegal don't you think? it's true ariza said those words...speculating something out of it if like you do if you can't prove it is ******.

so arum said he knew about oscar's previous test results which could be positive of peds and you speculated (again) that he allowed it and he could be doing it again with pac. the question is...if he allowed oscar's test results to be manipulated why do you think he is challenging oscar right now to issue a waiver? don't you think it's ****** for arum to put himself in a situation where his reputation as a promoter will be put to question? again another one of your ****** speculations

[Lorily]

You seem like an angry Guy to be honest. It may only seem that way to you because I state facts, I'm no judge/jury ect. I just state facts and I stand by that.
If you took the time to read what I write as a whole, you'd see this. But people tend to stop where they don't agree and comment on that part. I can tell you mustve done that cause you came at me kinda sideways in your reply about me giving props to Kahn. Its the keywords you must pay attention to.

I'm about the farthest thing from "an angry guy" you can get, I'm only one of a few who didn't call you "******" but you seem more offended that I questioned you about your Kahn comments so whatever. If you took it sideways it wasn't meant that way however, again I say you should take your own advice as I read every word you wrote in this thread... did you bother to read past my "sideways" comment about Kahn. If you can't take a difference of opinion without taking it as a personal attack I don't know what to tell you. If you need to have the last word go right ahead. I'm not here to argue, only gave an OPINION to a thread you posted for all on BS. Peace.