Benn: "Jones dodged me", Eubank: "Roy avoided my calls", Collins: "Roy ran scared!",

[bfg]

It's funny I've started to notice with this thread... It's the same old story everytime we discuss Roy Jones Junior and his "greatness".

Everyone outside America rallies up and say's, "Why is RJJ so great?" and it's very handy because there are SOOOOO MANY fight ducks, moving up to avoid, moving down to avoid, through Roy's career that it starts to become ammunition... LOL!...

And then on the other side there's the Yanks that will defend RJJ blindly... And then the conversation becomes - excuses, excuses, after more excuses... And so on...

I think what it comes down to is that people outside America don't have an awfull lot of respect for Roy because he was scared to fight outside the comfort zone of the U.S. and in doing that, ducked a lot of fighters.

Whereas the Americans like the idea of having a "GREAT" fighter of their own, (even if it is a little bit of blind love).

I reckon that's about the size of it.

It can be hard for us Yanks to really know all that much about British fighters because they are rarely broadcast in the US....the casual fan wouldn't know who Benn, Collins, or Eubank was...I think Jones was pumped up a great deal since a number of his fights seemed to be against lackluster fighters (this is the same arguement a lot of people make about B-Hop)...I never thought Jones was unbeatable though....just seemed like he never faced anyone who really had the tools...I would think that Toney and B-Hop were probably two of the best fighters he faced but his skills were way above these two men, at least at that point in time....I think he would have had a good chance at beating the best British middles that were around when he was at that weight, although I think Eubank could have given him fits...lthey could have had a pose off between rounds ...but I get your point and agree....the era of jones wasn't like the old times (or even the lighter weights now) when the best faced the best regularly so it is hard to say how he would have held up against some of the more regarded international fighters...everybody likes to think their boy is unbeatable

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

It can be hard for us Yanks to really know all that much about British fighters because they are rarely broadcast in the US....the casual fan wouldn't know who Benn, Collins, or Eubank was...I think Jones was pumped up a great deal since a number of his fights seemed to be against lackluster fighters (this is the same arguement a lot of people make about B-Hop)...I never thought Jones was unbeatable though....just seemed like he never faced anyone who really had the tools...I would think that Toney and B-Hop were probably two of the best fighters he faced but his skills were way above these two men, at least at that point in time....I think he would have had a good chance at beating the best British middles that were around when he was at that weight, although I think Eubank could have given him fits...lthey could have had a pose off between rounds ...but I get your point and agree....the era of jones wasn't like the old times (or even the lighter weights now) when the best faced the best regularly so it is hard to say how he would have held up against some of the more regarded international fighters...everybody likes to think their boy is unbeatable

I do like what you say there - (About the lighter weights at the moment). Lot's of people say that, "boxing is not like it used to be", and "I wonder if the good old days of TRUE WARRIORS will ever come back?".

2005' so far has been one of the best boxing years I've ever witnessed, (AND WE'RE ONLY IN JUNE!)... Pacquiao vs Morales - Corrales vs Castillo to name two, but there have been a whole LOAD of other fights that have been fantastic aswell on domestic level.

I do agree with what you say above...

This year has started to change the way I'm looking at boxing... There are some real warriors out there and they have all the passion and courage of some of the greats from the past. (These are in the lower weights).

So I've started to think, "If Bernard Hopkins wants to turn up and run for 12 rounds, because he's so worried about tarnishing his precious 20 IBF defences, then let him. There are real fighters out there at the lower weights that really come to fight! They also take great pride in putting on spectacular show, and they are the definition of prize fighters!"

That was the last time I buy a Bernard Hopkins fight (Eastman). I felt cheated out of my £15.00 Coz' he didn't come to fight AT ALL... There's a difference between elusive fighting and just plain running! - I paid for a fight and got a pantomine.

Doesn't matter though... Coz' those Mexicans etc in the lower weight classes keep boxing ticking over quite nicely!

[cvt]

i don't understand why peolpe try to discredit roy jones jr. professional trainers and fighters herald him as the greatest talent to even lace up gloves. sugar ray robinson may have been the best pound for pound but roy moved in that ring like he was touched by god. ever notice everytime a fighter walks into the ring (mosley, mayweather, hopkins, toney, etc.) they all go to the corner to pat hands with rjj when he's commentating. it's giveing respect and acknowledgment to a person who gave many people a sight to see.

to all those people who discredit roy with stats and interviews and whatnot...have you laced boxing gloves? better yet fight competively full contact? i have. and so do many of my peers. i've been in the fight game since i was 4 (i'm 27 now). and just watching roy you can see how well he times people comming in, how we shifts of to the side to hit and not get hit, the way he draws an opponent in and then launches with a left hook...it's really quite beautiful if you know the nuances of the ring...of course if you're a couch potato then you'll fail to notice such things. my point is...the pros know he's great...why wouldn't joe schmoe couch potato think he's great? cuz he memorizes stats?...lol

[bfg]

I do like what you say there - (About the lighter weights at the moment). Lot's of people say that, "boxing is not like it used to be", and "I wonder if the good old days of TRUE WARRIORS will ever come back?".

2005' so far has been one of the best boxing years I've ever witnessed, (AND WE'RE ONLY IN JUNE!)... Pacquiao vs Morales - Corrales vs Castillo to name two, but there have been a whole LOAD of other fights that have been fantastic aswell on domestic level.

I do agree with what you say above...

This year has started to change the way I'm looking at boxing... There are some real warriors out there and they have all the passion and courage of some of the greats from the past. (These are in the lower weights).

So I've started to think, "If Bernard Hopkins wants to turn up and run for 12 rounds, because he's so worried about tarnishing his precious 20 IBF defences, then let him. There are real fighters out there at the lower weights that really come to fight! They also take great pride in putting on spectacular show, and they are the definition of prize fighters!"

That was the last time I buy a Bernard Hopkins fight (Eastman). I felt cheated out of my £15.00 Coz' he didn't come to fight AT ALL... There's a difference between elusive fighting and just plain running! - I paid for a fight and got a pantomine.

Doesn't matter though... Coz' those Mexicans etc in the lower weight classes keep boxing ticking over quite nicely!

I'm a big fan of the lower weight classes. As far as Hopkins goes, hewins but his fights are mind-numbing......I am a fan but I don't think he is unbeatable or his fights are exciting and I would not pay for a Hopkins fight (maybe his fight against Taylor)...usually watch them at a bar...he is a smart fighter but he is a safe fighter...again, the same arguement has been made against Jones....but I can see why people wouldn't want to pay for a Hopkins fight ....the Eastman fight was mind-numbing and a waste of time....some blame has to be put on Eastman though...he let Hopkins fight the fight he fought...but the middleweight class isn't the greatest right now...its all about the little men

[bfg]

i don't understand why peolpe try to discredit roy jones jr. professional trainers and fighters herald him as the greatest talent to even lace up gloves. sugar ray robinson may have been the best pound for pound but roy moved in that ring like he was touched by god. ever notice everytime a fighter walks into the ring (mosley, mayweather, hopkins, toney, etc.) they all go to the corner to pat hands with rjj when he's commentating. it's giveing respect and acknowledgment to a person who gave many people a sight to see.

to all those people who discredit roy with stats and interviews and whatnot...have you laced boxing gloves? better yet fight competively full contact? i have. and so do many of my peers. i've been in the fight game since i was 4 (i'm 27 now). and just watching roy you can see how well he times people comming in, how we shifts of to the side to hit and not get hit, the way he draws an opponent in and then launches with a left hook...it's really quite beautiful if you know the nuances of the ring...of course if you're a couch potato then you'll fail to notice such things. my point is...the pros know he's great...why wouldn't joe schmoe couch potato think he's great? cuz he memorizes stats?...lol

Let me clarify...I not discrediting Roy's ability at all...he had great natural ability but he didn't test himself as much as he could've...I am a Jones fan but his competition level wasn;t the greatest at times....same with Hopkins...money was probably a big part of this but your reputation is cemented by fighting the best....just having great ability isn;t everything...Roy was a great fighter but I would have liked to see him test himself more...Oh, and the fight against Ruiz doesn;t count...there couldn't have been a heavyweight more custom made for JOnes.

Just my opinion.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

i don't understand why peolpe try to discredit roy jones jr. professional trainers and fighters herald him as the greatest talent to even lace up gloves. sugar ray robinson may have been the best pound for pound but roy moved in that ring like he was touched by god. ever notice everytime a fighter walks into the ring (mosley, mayweather, hopkins, toney, etc.) they all go to the corner to pat hands with rjj when he's commentating. it's giveing respect and acknowledgment to a person who gave many people a sight to see.

to all those people who discredit roy with stats and interviews and whatnot...have you laced boxing gloves? better yet fight competively full contact? i have. and so do many of my peers. i've been in the fight game since i was 4 (i'm 27 now). and just watching roy you can see how well he times people comming in, how we shifts of to the side to hit and not get hit, the way he draws an opponent in and then launches with a left hook...it's really quite beautiful if you know the nuances of the ring...of course if you're a couch potato then you'll fail to notice such things. my point is...the pros know he's great...why wouldn't joe schmoe couch potato think he's great? cuz he memorizes stats?...lol

Fella... There are a lot of amatuers and some pro's that post on this website. I was a pretty handy amatuer myself, a fews years back now... It's not all arm chair boxing fans.

No one on this thread has said that they think Roy Jones was crap. No one is saying that Roy Jones wasn't a great fighter, this thread is not about that.

What we're discussing is elite fighters, and who they did and didn't fight throughout their career, But more importantly, who the should and shouldn't have fought.

Roy Jones was an exceptional talent, there's no doubt about that. But when you have a fighter as good as he is, it's very easy to look awesome, powerfull complete when they're fighting the likes of Glenn Kelly etc... But it's a different story trying to look that way when they're faced up against another fighter of "elite" class.

And it's in these fights with other elite fighters that their name is made in history.

That's kinda what this thread is about. And why Roy chose not to take those fights.

[JUYJUY]

i don't understand why peolpe try to discredit roy jones jr. professional trainers and fighters herald him as the greatest talent to even lace up gloves. sugar ray robinson may have been the best pound for pound but roy moved in that ring like he was touched by god. ever notice everytime a fighter walks into the ring (mosley, mayweather, hopkins, toney, etc.) they all go to the corner to pat hands with rjj when he's commentating. it's giveing respect and acknowledgment to a person who gave many people a sight to see.

to all those people who discredit roy with stats and interviews and whatnot...have you laced boxing gloves? better yet fight competively full contact? i have. and so do many of my peers. i've been in the fight game since i was 4 (i'm 27 now). and just watching roy you can see how well he times people comming in, how we shifts of to the side to hit and not get hit, the way he draws an opponent in and then launches with a left hook...it's really quite beautiful if you know the nuances of the ring...of course if you're a couch potato then you'll fail to notice such things. my point is...the pros know he's great...why wouldn't joe schmoe couch potato think he's great? cuz he memorizes stats?...lol

Roy Jones Jr had fantastic ability, there's no doubt about that. You'd have be blind to say otherwise.

But the fact is that he was more beatable than past greats and avoided more fighters than past greats.

I can put my hand on my heart and say that I would of bet money on Chris Eubank beating Roy Jones Jr, I honestly believe that he would of beaten him, and this is coming from somebody who has won ABA amateur titles and sparred with WBC champions - far from a couch potato.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

I'm a big fan of the lower weight classes. As far as Hopkins goes, hewins but his fights are mind-numbing......I am a fan but I don't think he is unbeatable or his fights are exciting and I would not pay for a Hopkins fight (maybe his fight against Taylor)...usually watch them at a bar...he is a smart fighter but he is a safe fighter...again, the same arguement has been made against Jones....but I can see why people wouldn't want to pay for a Hopkins fight ....the Eastman fight was mind-numbing and a waste of time....some blame has to be put on Eastman though...he let Hopkins fight the fight he fought...but the middleweight class isn't the greatest right now...its all about the little men

All about the little men!

Eastman was trying to make a fight of it on the night, but by the time the actual fight itself was made, Eastman had already started to look old, (He'd had a few below average peformances leading up to it). Perhaps that's why Hopkins waited until then?

The fight should have been 2-3yrs earlier and it would have been more of a tear-up.

Christ, how pathetic is the "have you boxed?" argument. It's so lame and it gets trotted out so often it's mind-numbing.

Here's one for cvt: it's called "have you ever learnt to read?" Because this thread had jack **** to do with how good in the ring Roy was.

[cvt]

Christ, how pathetic is the "have you boxed?" argument. It's so lame and it gets trotted out so often it's mind-numbing.

Here's one for cvt: it's called "have you ever learnt to read?" Because this thread had jack **** to do with how good in the ring Roy was.

i wasn't refuting the 'questionable' opposition arguement and i clearly know what the thread is about. my post was in response to those people who posted on this thread of jones' abilities. let's get that straight.

and the 'have you boxed?' argument is not pathetic.it's quite valid that you can't talk about the ins and outs of swimmming without ever jumping in the pool...so yes i believe ring credentials is valid. unless you're the very potato i'm talking about.