Benn: "Jones dodged me", Eubank: "Roy avoided my calls", Collins: "Roy ran scared!",

i wasn't refuting the 'questionable' opposition arguement and i clearly know what the thread is about. my post was in response to those people who posted on this thread of jones' abilities. let's get that straight.

and the 'have you boxed?' argument is not pathetic.it's quite valid that you can't talk about the ins and outs of swimmming without ever jumping in the pool...so yes i believe ring credentials is valid. unless you're the very potato i'm talking about.

I AM a potato. I watch, study the science. Does it invalidate my ability to discuss it unless I've taken shots to the head? If it does, then that's okay... I'd rather be declared "invalid" than have someone smack me in the head. Boxing's for watching, not for doing...

[RoyJonesJrp4pno1]

Fella... There are a lot of amatuers and some pro's that post on this website. I was a pretty handy amatuer myself, a fews years back now... It's not all arm chair boxing fans.

No one on this thread has said that they think Roy Jones was crap. No one is saying that Roy Jones wasn't a great fighter, this thread is not about that.

What we're discussing is elite fighters, and who they did and didn't fight throughout their career, But more importantly, who the should and shouldn't have fought.

Roy Jones was an exceptional talent, there's no doubt about that. But when you have a fighter as good as he is, it's very easy to look awesome, powerfull complete when they're fighting the likes of Glenn Kelly etc... But it's a different story trying to look that way when they're faced up against another fighter of "elite" class.

And it's in these fights with other elite fighters that their name is made in history.

That's kinda what this thread is about. And why Roy chose not to take those fights.

Roy dominated higher calibre fghters then scrubs like Glen Kelley and Ricky Frazier.

Reggie Johnson, Richard Hall, Eric Harding, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, John Ruiz, Lou Del Valle, Montel Griffen (Rematch, Virgil Hill, Merqui Sosa and Julio Gonzalez were very good fighters and far better then scrubs like Kelley and Frazier. Roy still dominated all of them. Roy didn't dominate Tarver, just beating Tarver in the condition that Roy was in makes the victory impressive.

[RoyJonesJrp4pno1]

All about the little men!

Eastman was trying to make a fight of it on the night, but by the time the actual fight itself was made, Eastman had already started to look old, (He'd had a few below average peformances leading up to it). Perhaps that's why Hopkins waited until then?

The fight should have been 2-3yrs earlier and it would have been more of a tear-up.

What did Eastman do to deserve a fight with Hopkins 2-3 years before there actual fight. Get schooled by Bernards sparring partner (Tito), sparring partner in William Joppy. You can call it running but you can also call it a schooling.

What did Eastman do to deserve a fight with Hopkins 2-3 years before there actual fight.

That's "their", not "there".

Get schooled by Bernards sparring partner (Tito), sparring partner in William Joppy. You can call it running but you can also call it a schooling.

No, I can call it running. What school have you ever been to where the teacher's writing on the blackboard then suddenly starts legging it around the classroom?

Not sure I understand the Tito quote... are you saying that Tito was the sparring partner of Joppy and Hopkins? Eastman has never fought Tito.

As for Howard and Joppy, Howard was lazy in the first half but KDed Joppy and clearly showed he could master him. The final scores were 115-112/114-112 Joppy and a draw. Hardly a "schooling" there.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

Roy dominated higher calibre fghters then scrubs like Glen Kelley and Ricky Frazier.

Reggie Johnson, Richard Hall, Eric Harding, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, John Ruiz, Lou Del Valle, Montel Griffen (Rematch, Virgil Hill, Merqui Sosa and Julio Gonzalez were very good fighters and far better then scrubs like Kelley and Frazier. Roy still dominated all of them. Roy didn't dominate Tarver, just beating Tarver in the condition that Roy was in makes the victory impressive.

What was I saying earlier about excuses excuses excuses always being made for RJJ?

Merqui Sosa? Did you see that fight?... Talk about a gift stoppage!... That was 10 times as bad as Cotto vs Corley!

Most of those fighters you've named aren't top grade fighters.

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

What did Eastman do to deserve a fight with Hopkins 2-3 years before there actual fight. Get schooled by Bernards sparring partner (Tito), sparring partner in William Joppy. You can call it running but you can also call it a schooling.

It sounds like you didn't see the fights? 2-3 years before Eastman was still the WBC mandatory! So yes he DID deserve a shot at the WBC belt.

If you saw the Eastman vs Joppy fight, you wouldn't suggest that Eastman was schooled... I though Eastman fell victim to a home town decsion.

[RobbieD]

There was no way Eastman lost to Joppy. Speaking of Eastman, didn't many U.S boxing journalists say Eastman would find it very hard to find fights in the States now because of his ability?

Funny how RJJ managed to swerve 4 British fighters and yet it's everyone's fault but his. 1 fight not coming off then I'd understand. 2 fights is a push but 4? Sorry no.

[RobbieD]

As for whoever mentioned British tabloids making up offers, Joe Calzaghe and Frank Warren both went public on TV saying they offered Hopkins and Jones huge offers. Hopkins was offered the biggest pay day of his life for a fight in Cardiff in front of 75,000 plus. How do you really refuse offers like this?

And whilst British fighters might not be "names" in the states, nobody outside the hardcore boxing audience in Britain has a clue who the hell Roy Jones Jnr and Bernard Hopkins are.

[cvt]

I AM a potato. I watch, study the science. Does it invalidate my ability to discuss it unless I've taken shots to the head? If it does, then that's okay... I'd rather be declared "invalid" than have someone smack me in the head. Boxing's for watching, not for doing...

i don't beleive it invalidates anything. people can watch from the side lines and pick up stuff. just like swimming. but my point is that to get a greater understanding you gotta take a dip in the pool. would you ever get taught by a swimming instructor who hasn't swam in his life? he'll probably teach you every technique from all the books he's read but when you finally jump in and you're sucking in water then you get a better understanding of how vaulable experience is.

[JUYJUY]

As for whoever mentioned British tabloids making up offers, Joe Calzaghe and Frank Warren both went public on TV saying they offered Hopkins and Jones huge offers. Hopkins was offered the biggest pay day of his life for a fight in Cardiff in front of 75,000 plus. How do you really refuse offers like this?

And whilst British fighters might not be "names" in the states, nobody outside the hardcore boxing audience in Britain has a clue who the hell Roy Jones Jnr and Bernard Hopkins are.

That's a good point.

Ask 1000 people on the streets of Britain if they've heard of Chris Eubank and 999 out of them will know exactly who your talking about. Ask any 1000 people on the streets of Britain if they've heard of Roy Jones and 999 of them won't have a clue who your talking about.