Why Exactly Is James Toney So Revered?

[Fox McCloud]

lol .. so your trying to say that michael nunn was a bum ? ... he was the best out there at the time wasnt he ? ... and ill give michael nunn the first half of the fight , but jt was coming back ... man gimme some of that **** you smokin

You seem to have trouble reading. I said that Nunn was very good, but a volume puncher is clearly the best style matchup for a master counterpuncher.

You also seem to have trouble with things like punctuation, and just generally seem to be a dip**** who can't argue to save his life. So leave me be.

If anyone who doesn't have trouble eating without slopping food down the front of themselves wants to argue the point with me, I'd welcome the debate.

[daggum]

Solid response.

The guy who is supposedly one of the best defensive counterpunchers ever got his ass beat by Michael Nunn, who threw a thousand punches, meaning he had a thousand counter opportunities.

Thank god he was able to pull one lights out punch out of his ass to win it.

But seriously, coming from behind and having to pray the KO comes is what I call true skill.

nunn is 6-3 with a long reach. its not like he's calzaghe who gets really close and leaves himself wide open to counters.

[Fox McCloud]

nunn is 6-3 with a long reach. its not like he's calzaghe who gets really close and leaves himself wide open to counters.

Unless he was volume punching with the jab only, the openings are there, especially if Toney was using that shoulder roll lean back move that he uses.

I might be talking out of my ass, since I haven't seen the fight, but it just seems like someone who is supposed to have legendary skills had way too many close calls.

[Jd_macca]

You seem to have trouble reading. I said that Nunn was very good, but a volume puncher is clearly the best style matchup for a master counterpuncher.

You also seem to have trouble with things like punctuation, and just generally seem to be a dip**** who can't argue to save his life. So leave me be.

If anyone who doesn't have trouble eating without slopping food down the front of themselves wants to argue the point with me, I'd welcome the debate.

lol .. i didnt mean to hurt your feelings ... and you obviously had no problems reading what i wrote ... So can you explain why you think james toney is "overrated skill wise"

[Fox McCloud]

lol .. i didnt mean to hurt your feelings ... and you obviously had no problems reading what i wrote ... So can you explain why you think james toney is "overrated skill wise"

Yes. I can. I've seen Toney at his best against Barkley, but people make his whole career (before the Jones loss) to be that good.

Guys who are so blessed skillwise should not have these sort of things on their resume:

SD win over 1-0 Arthur Willis. Willis ended up 11-20.
Draw with 24-11 Sanderline Williams.
SD to Merqui Sosa, which is actually a little more forgivable, as Sosa was a decent prospect.
Come from behind victory over Michael Nunn.
SD to Reggie Johnson that a lot of people think is a loss.
Draw with McCallum, that a lot of people think is a loss.
The Tiberi fight.
MD to McCallum, that people think he lost again.

Listen, it's not that I think Toney is bad. I think he's actually great in his prime. But people comparing him to Hopkins and Jones is absurd in my mind.

I'd take Calzaghe over Toney prime for prime to be honest (sorry daggum).

[Spray_resistant]

Toney has some solid wins and came back from obscurity to win a CW title and a HW title which he was stripped of because of the positive tests.

True he has fought many softies but those fights were in between elite level fighters and he did get a couple bad decisions himself too in addition to a few gifts( hey, it happens in boxing).

No one can deny the skill even if he isn't the most dedicated in training and especially with his diet.

I can see how someone who is new to boxing would look at him the way you do TS, as he has not been impressive since moving to HW. You must consider that his best days were long ago and he is naturally more of a LHW.

[Fox McCloud]

Toney has some solid wins and came back from obscurity to win a CW title and a HW title which he was stripped of because of the positive tests.

True he has fought many softies but those fights were in between elite level fighters and he did get a couple bad decisions himself too in addition to a few gifts( hey, it happens in boxing).

No one can deny the skill even if he isn't the most dedicated in training and especially with his diet.

I can see how someone who is new to boxing would look at him the way you do TS, as he has not been impressive since moving to HW. You must consider that his best days were long ago and he is naturally more of a LHW.

But it's not even that... other than the Barkley fight, what fights would you look at and say, skillwise, this man belongs side by side with Jones and Hopkins?

People seem to put way too much stock into the Barkley fight, and ignore all the fights were he just didn't show up (and I'm talking about only fights before Roy Jones).

[Jd_macca]

Yes. I can. I've seen Toney at his best against Barkley, but people make his whole career (before the Jones loss) to be that good.

Guys who are so blessed skillwise should not have these sort of things on their resume:

SD win over 1-0 Arthur Willis. Willis ended up 11-20.
Draw with 24-11 Sanderline Williams.
SD to Merqui Sosa, which is actually a little more forgivable, as Sosa was a decent prospect.
Come from behind victory over Michael Nunn.
SD to Reggie Johnson that a lot of people think is a loss.
Draw with McCallum, that a lot of people think is a loss.
The Tiberi fight.
MD to McCallum, that people think he lost again.

Listen, it's not that I think Toney is bad. I think he's actually great in his prime. But people comparing him to Hopkins and Jones is absurd in my mind.

I'd take Calzaghe over Toney prime for prime to be honest (sorry daggum).

Are you serious ?? ... so you think jones and hopkins are better ? .. man, rjj was really good in his prime im not gonna doubt that, but he was so good because of his speed. He never fought the best, jt wants to only fight the best, man i could go on and on but i cbf .

[illmatickid]

Cuando:

-he is fat (presently)
-he is disrespectful
-he is lazy (always)
-tested positive for steroids
-he loses/draws to bums
-he lost almost all of his big name fights
-his record is filled with wins against BUMS and/or unheard of people
-his only notable big wins are against Jirov and an OLD SHOT holyfield
-has victories against people he shouldn't (boxing politics)

-his skills are undeniable yet he didn't achieve what has expected of him (because of his high skill set)

i don't hate james toney, i think he has good skills but i thin he is WAY OVERRATED (based on accomplishments and skills)..........and i wonder exactly why is the man so loved, and gets so little hate (compared to someone like roy jones jr., who defeated him rather easily might i add)

because he has milk baby

LOL.. boxing wouldn't be the same without james toney
his persona and his boxing finesse is just wonderful to watch

[Spray_resistant]

But it's not even that... other than the Barkley fight, what fights would you look at and say, skillwise, this man belongs side by side with Jones and Hopkins?

People seem to put way too much stock into the Barkley fight, and ignore all the fights were he just didn't show up (and I'm talking about only fights before Roy Jones).

Beating a 36-0 Michael Nunn was impressive and the fact that he was able to move up so far out of his weight class and win titles is something not everyone can do.

Even though he didn't get the nod in either fight with Griffin who made Jones look ordinary the 1st fight he had with Jones, Toney could have won the 1st fight with Griffin and certainly won the 2nd.

The skill is evident in his performances, maybe not lately but guys can be standing right in front of him teeing off and never land a really clean shot.

In terms of defensive skill he is one of the best but doesn't just run away all night he will also mix it up in there.

Toney is one of the more complete fighters I have seen in terms of what he has in his arsenal.