Pac is top five ATG - Emmanuel Steward

[TheGreatA]

if Roger M said that about PBF, then he is clearly going to appear biased.....

BUT this is Steward....he is black, not manny's trainer and a reputable boxing trainer.....

dundee trained ali--------Steward did not trained Manny

Im a Pac fan but i dont agree with Steward....Pac surely is top 25 at least not top 5 in my opinion although he is the best southpaw of all time though....

but that is my own opinion

I agree that Roger would come off as biased but he's still more credible in saying that than just about anyone in this forum. But that doesn't mean he's right or unbiased.

However I do agree that this should be considered a huge compliment for Pacquiao coming from a trainer like Steward.

Still, I can't help but to be reminded of when George Foreman stated that James Page was pound for pound the best in the world and that Audley Harrison was going to be the next great heavyweight. He's a former heavyweight champion of the world but I had to disagree with him on that.

[FightFreak]

I don't really believe in ATG lists

I'm not saying I agree with Steward, but why counter Steward's list when you don't even believe in ATG lists? He evidently believes in it, and has one in his own mind. If you don't, that's cool. But why even argue with his list if you don't? Why not just say that you don't believe in ATG lists and explain. I mean, there won't be a point of discussion, otherwise.

Not trying to be a **** here. Just pursuing your point.

[SteveJarvey]

*****s regard Floyd as the greatest ever. And they are here 24/7 to defend their belief

[TheGreatA]

I'm not saying I agree with Steward, but why counter Steward's list when you don't even believe in ATG lists? He evidently believes in it, and has one in his own mind. If you don't, that's cool. But why even argue with his list if you don't? Why not just say that you don't believe in ATG lists and explain. I mean, there won't be a point of discussion, otherwise.

Not trying to be a **** here. Just pursuing your point.

I don't believe different fighters can truly be listed numerically next to each other. I do rate fighters, for example I have a fairly clear view of whom I consider the top 20 best boxers to have ever done it but it gets difficult when you have to rank, for example, Benny Leonard and Willie Pep when there's very little that separates them.

And I quite doubt that Emmanuel Steward has a clear list of his own either.

If you asked him what number he rates Azumah Nelson in his ATG list he probably won't answer you "#86", he'd probably say he has him among the top 100 or outside of it. That's basically my policy on this matter. I have somewhat of a list but it's not a very definite one.

[kill4]

And I wouldn't claim that I have a better fundamental knowledge of the sport than Emmanuel Steward but I do understand the history of the sport, not only on the level of knowing Joe Louis's opponents but the whole depth of it. 120 years is a long time and it includes a lot of men who took up the sport and to claim that you're the 5th best ever in all of that time is quite a compliment, a compliment I wouldn't quite yet hand out to Manny Pacquiao despite all his achievements. Fights such as Pacquiao vs Mayweather are the ones that give you the right to be called one of the best of all time. He would prove, without question, that he is the best of his era, something that the likes of Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Harry Greb, Ezzard Charles, Ray Leonard proved, several times.

Manny Steward having more credibility than anyone on this forum doesn't necessarily prove that he's right, although in this case I guess there's really no right or wrong. You can rate a fighter however you want to and a man like Manny Steward certainly has a right to his opinion. But this doesn't mean everyone has to agree with it. I don't, and many other credible people don't. People just as credible as Steward.

Very well said, and this is coming from a pac fan. All time 5'th great is over stepping the boundaries. 120 years is a long time to say pac is in the 5'th atg.

I read a post on here don't remember on what thread i think it was talking bout how mayweather was saying, he is the atg, and he made the argument to say if your the all the time greatest you have to go back into the beginning of boxing, and prove why your the all time greatest.

I give it to pac tho i think he definitely is one of the greatest on our era. If you look at emanuel's comments on every fight of pac's he keeps saying he keeps getting better, and better, on every fight he has.

I think emanuel is just impressed on how pac keeps getting better with every fight, and is just plain impressed with the man. He has a right to say that, he has earned that right..

[FightFreak]

Yep. I don't think there is even one definitive ATG list that all experts agree on. But as with every convention, ATG lists are a sort of accepted by and among boxing experts.

There is no consensus yet on how great Pac has become based on his achievements. Other experts -- like Bert Sugar -- do not quite share Steward's opinion of Pac. Not yet, anyway.

Steward's is just one opinion, and he doesn't even argue that it is sacrosanct. But I also think we should acknowledge his opinions as among those that matter.

[F l i c k e r]

Pacquiao is not a top 5 ATG. I doubt he could beat anyone in Oscar's era, nor do I believe he can beat anyone in the Fab 4 era.

Oh, you want to talk lightweight and lower? If Pacquiao had problems fighting with the skill of JMM. How the **** would he fair against Alexis Arguello? Camacho? Prime JCC?

Pacquiao is good but dont start getting all crazy. Like Roger Mayweather said... "You don't know **** 'bout boxin."

[TheGreatA]

Pacquiao is not a top 5 ATG. I doubt he could beat anyone in Oscar's era, nor do I believe he can beat anyone in the Fab 4 era.

Oh, you want to talk lightweight and lower? If Pacquiao had problems fighting with the skill of JMM. How the **** would he fair against Alexis Arguello? Camacho? Prime JCC?

Pacquiao is good but dont start getting all crazy. Like Roger Mayweather said... "You don't know **** 'bout boxin."

That statement would work if it wasn't Emmanuel Steward we are talking about.

[-EX-]

Bull****...

[War Dinamita]

I put Manny perhaps on the top 25 in ATG. Just my thoughts.

I agree with you.

He's in the top 25 and can move up, but he's no way in the top 10.