Victor Conte talking steroids, Pacquiao and Boxing

[rao007]

Because it tracks blood count?

Okay, I see your point--but when do you need RBC to be high? In a fight, right? Manny has already agreed to take a blood tests right after the fight. You can claim that Pacquiao may use it to train after the 24 day mark but my question is: does EPO also increase recovery time? Okay, he works harder but increases the chances of burnout...does that also mean he uses another steroid to increase recovery time? Like Drostanolone?

[rao007]

Of course. But I wasn't speaking to them specifically. I'm speaking universally. If such a rule were to be implemented, do you believe that fighters who cite "mental" concerns should be excused?

AGAIN, it doesn't matter. Is that so hard to understand? You seem to be trying to make a useless point across. If the NSAC asked Cotto to stop plucking his eyebrows for the sake of testing it for lab analysis---he would have to..period.

[Bee Keepz]

not much training done right before the fight but much recovering


the cream and the clear - cream is the roids, clear is the masking agent to help pass tesrs

mosley obviously took semething very androgenic and strong which will tend to reduce your endurance so he probably did take something to increase it again.. EPO is not the only thing.. equipoise (or boldenone, race horse steroids) will increase red blood cell count too. im not sure if it contains EPO or not..

EPO is the regulatory hormone for RBC, and yeah boldenone indirectly stimulates EPO release.

[IMDAZED]

Okay, I see your point--but when do you need RBC to be high? In a fight, right? Manny has already agreed to take a blood tests right after the fight. You can claim that Pacquiao may use it to train after the 24 day mark but my question is: does certain EPO also increase recovery time? Okay, he works harder but increases the chances of burnout...does that also mean he uses another steroid to increase recovery time? Like Drostanolone?

Wait a sec. You seem to be switching the discussion rather quickly. Before we move on, let's establish some common ground for the initial conversation - just so we're clear. You said:

How is three blood tests going to catch that as one USADA official said--one type of EPO can be excreted from the body very quickly even with blood tests involved.

To which I responded that it tracks the red blood cell count. If anything, it renders the urine test dodgy because it is ineffective once EPO (and ONLY EPO) is absorbed/secreted. Thus, the blood tests are more effective because instead of looking for something that comes and goes quickly, it tracks the changes in your blood count. This would let officials know whether or not you are dealing with some sort of blood doping. Clear?

[IMDAZED]

AGAIN, it doesn't matter. Is that so hard to understand? You seem to be trying to make a useless point across. If the NSAC asked Cotto to stop plucking his eyebrows for the sake of testing it for lab analysis---he would have to..period.

You're right - it doesn't matter. Then why did you make a point to state that you were FOR random blood & urine testing? Were you lying? Shouldn't it NOT matter since the NSAC doesn't do that? But it's your opinion, right? Ok then. So I'm asking you, in your opinion, should any fighter be excused from these kind of tests just because they say it affects them mentally?

[Jose Rizal]

Bottom line is that Pac's 24 day window counteroffer was an acceptable time frame for whatever testing organizations to prove if Pac was on the juice or not. Definitely a test right after the fight as well.

All Floyd had to do was to sign the dotted line and March 3 was on secured with the knowledge that Pac wasn't gonna pull off anything illegal, but no.

He wanted a mental edge over Pac. He feels he needs to mess up with Pac's brain a bit in order to win. That or he needed a way out of the negotiations. His FEAR is quite obvious.

[rao007]

Wait a sec. You seem to be switching the discussion rather quickly. Before we move on, let's establish some common ground for the initial conversation - just so we're clear. You said:



To which I responded that it tracks the red blood cell count. If anything, it renders the urine test dodgy because it is ineffective once EPO (and ONLY EPO) is absorbed/secreted. Thus, the blood tests are more effective because instead of looking for something that comes and goes quickly, it tracks the changes in your blood count. This would let officials know whether or not you are dealing with some sort of blood doping. Clear?

EPO only initiates red blood cell formation--that's why leaves the blood quickly after finishing it's job. Isn't that what Conte and the USAD are looking for? Why make EPO tests if not looking for blood doping? Did Conte ever mention tracking RBC levels in fighters?

[IMDAZED]

EPO only initiates red blood cell formation--that's why leaves the blood quickly after finishing it's job. Isn't that what Conte and the USAD are looking for? Why make EPO tests if not looking for blood doping? Did Conte ever mention tracking RBC levels in fighters?

Yes but since its effects last for weeks, the blood test is the best test. Instead of looking for one particular synthetic agent (which would probably not show), it tracks changes in the RBC.

[Carpe Diem]

Bottom line is that Pac's 24 day window counteroffer was an acceptable time frame for whatever testing organizations to prove if Pac was on the juice or not. Definitely a test right after the fight as well.

All Floyd had to do was to sign the dotted line and March 3 was on secured with the knowledge that Pac wasn't gonna pull off anything illegal, but no.

He wanted a mental edge over Pac. He feels he needs to mess up with Pac's brain a bit in order to win. That or he needed a way out of the negotiations. His FEAR is quite obvious.

Dr. Don H. Catlin, the head of the Los Angeles-based non-profit Anti-Doping Research, Inc., said a 24-day cutoff for blood testing is not sufficient to prevent abuse. One of the concerns with such a long blood-testing cutoff prior to the date of competition would be the potential use of Erythropoietin, or EPO.

But Catlin said that wouldn’t be the only concern if there were a 24-day cutoff imposed.

“If you have a 24-day window that’s free, with no testing, you can take whatever you want and you’re not going to get caught, end of story,” Catlin said. “[Urine testing] does matter, yes, but they’re not going to catch everything by urine testing alone. What you would do is to take Mircera [a type of EPO], which is available and which is not easy to detect in urine and away you go. You need a blood test.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/box/ne...&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[freedom213]

i have to admit this discussion was quite fascinating to read. I probably read 14 pages worth. That said at the end of the day the testing boxing does is "perceived" by a large majority to be inadequate pertaining to many drugs that are prevalent in other sports. This makes the sport questionable to many and when Team Pac says no to a fight of this magnitude (payday 40 million and p4p bragging rights) all because of a 14 day blood draw cutoff something is su****ious . You even have Roach quoted as saying 5 days out is acceptable but a full two weeks is rejected. Something is amiss or Arum and Pacs advisors need fired for simply making him look guilty of something that can now not be resolved. Boxing needs to fall in-line and seriously random test mainly because this sport has been proven lethal without the help of PED's, er maybe without....