So how come Pac was able to get Better while Floyd declined?

[Killa_Kali]

That's what I'm saying. If the Marquez fight is being used as a gauge, I don't think it's possible to tell if he's slipped. Marquez at WW is more stationary than a box of paper clips. Floyd has not been tested in two years, at the very least, and the last test was Ricky Hatton.

How do we gauge him?

see the sig. floyd is an LW who has no belt. only a fool would rank him as a top WW. see the latest boxrec and ring rankings.

[Jiddu Dali]

floyd has only gotten better...his accuracy is out the roof...his speed is three times as fast...his defense is damn near flawless now...when you can count on one hand how many times a person hits you...i can't see how that's a decline...i believe that he can go into 154 and wash them up when his welter run is over...

Mayweather is going to be 154lbs when he steps in the ring vs Pacquiao

[Benny Leonard]

You do you know Mayweather has had hand problems through out his boxing career? Since like 2001 with Hernendez fight. And leading up to the Hatton fight--I didn't see any change in his agility or speed. Pacquiao's speed has actually diminished over the years since moving up in weight. By the way, how does PEDs help you mantain hand speed?

Yes, I know Floyd has brittle hands...I hear it enough from Freddie Roach to remind me.

PEDs: How does PEDs help Sprinters?
It is not just their legs that get fast but their entire body. Actually, a little note on that: If you want to be fast, improve your arm speed. That's what I read from one of the top sprinting coaches a while back. Those arms need to move just as fast if not faster...something like that.

[alexpz]

Mayweather is going to be 154lbs when he steps in the ring vs Pacquiao

Hey Jiddu Dali you better pay your bet to Iparm. lolz

[Benny Leonard]

see the sig. floyd is an LW who has no belt. only a fool would rank him as a top WW. see the latest boxrec and ring rankings.

I don't think Floyd needs to be ranked at this piont.

For who is the best: Shane is the lineal and has proven himself more at WW than anyone else. Paul Williams, if he can still make weight, is the most dangerous...and then it goes from there. Probably Pac since he has a title by giving Cotto a brutal beating and so on.

[lparm]

I was thinking about this and watching some tapes:

Floyd's speed and flexibility (away from his punch-out-put) has seemingly declined on some level as he settled in at 147...while Pac has continually improved in many ways and has at least kept his speed unless some think it is better...don't know.

So how come Pac was able to do it but not Floyd?

Training, Nutrition...with Ariza and Roach's help?
Of course.

But why not Floyd?

Well, maybe it was because unlike Pac who needed to get better because he did well but not "great" in the lower weight divisions knew that if he continued to fight on and move up he had to continually get better.
So, he looked to advance himself with the help of Nutrition, Training set up by Ariza and Roach to help him become better technically. Hard Work and Study to improve.

Floyd: well, after moving up to 147 and settling in, I guess it can be looked at as if he sat on his ass and when you do that, you decline. There is no need to improve and it is when you just try to maintain your ability you can actually start to slip with age. The way to beat age is to find new ways to stimulate your mind and body. Pac did it; Floyd may not have.

Now if Floyd was forced to fight the best at 147 maybe that would have kicked his ass in gear to continually improve. Kind of like War. Those who settle in and get comfortable and don't have a major threat on the boarders, tend to become vulnerable and fade away while others who are constantly in warfare and have a fear level to survive, strive to continually improve to live.


You have Sr. throwing out PEDs use against Pac...but maybe Sr. and little Floyd are "Old School" on their approach to athletics/boxing.
Hopkins was like this throughout his MW career and he slowed down when he hit his 30's so he had to start pacing himself and picking and choosing when to fight during each round. He moves up to LH and he comes into the "Now" and hires a Pro...Mackie Shilstone...someone who is known to train some of the best athletes in the World to improve in the modern way. Hopkins became refreshed. Still declined compared to his early days but seemingly better than he was at MW.

So who does Floyd have? Big Leonard? I don't know. I'm a bit ignorant on this subject with him. But one thing is for sure: he seemingly is not the same as he used to be and Pac has been able to continually increase weight and get better...as well as his willingness to add on to his arsenal.
Now it wasn't a huge leap in technical ability as some may think it is...No...and it did take a long time to improve even slightly technically for Pac....but at least he put the effort in to get the desired results.

A while back someone mention Floyd and juicing and although it helps with strength the extra muscle can slow a guy down as seen by the cut up Tyson compared to the leaner Tyson.

[Benny Leonard]

his welter run against cotto, shane, pac, berto? when has that happened? enlighten me.

................

[BOX-A-LOT]

OK...take the opponent out of the equation for a second and let's just go with examples of how he looks physically. Would you say he is at the same speed and flexibility now compared to when he was at 130, 135...?

Not so sure myself.

He is still a Zebra, but has that Zebra lost a little step that may cost him to get eaten by the Lion now?

Dude, it's really hard to tell if he has lost a step, maybe a hair slower, then again I kind of see PAC in the same light.

Both guys in my eyes are still the two fastest guys out there, but, I don't think their speed are quite the same as maybe a few years back.

I don't think it's Floyd's reflexes that's gonna bite him in the @ss if PAC connects on him. PAC's angles are just crazy, man. I've personally witnessed it in person. If it looks nuts on t.v. it's even mind-boggling what PAC does watching him from 5 feet away.

PAC's wildness is like a double-edge sword.

[Killa_Kali]

in the past 2-3 years*....I said he has worked on minor things...nothing that just stands out. Simple mechanics..oh and is footwork is much better at the higher weights...... These fighters are who they are.....

what are you smoking? when pac started, he only had a left straight bomb that scared the hell out of asia. the right hooks that decked hatton and the left uppercut that nuked cotto are "minor things?" the footwork, the angles, the body feints, punch resistance, and lateral movements are minor, i guess.

floyd stans are becoming more silly with every post they make

[S A M U R A I]

see the sig. floyd is an LW who has no belt. only a fool would rank him as a top WW. see the latest boxrec and ring rankings.

Yeah, seen the rankings, Kali. I would not place Floyd above any of the top WW's for beating Marquez. Any of those guys would have obliterated a bloated up Marquez, most likely by KO.

BUT... we know why it's happened. This is all to do with having MP & FMJ fight for the RING belt.



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