So how come Pac was able to get Better while Floyd declined?

[S A M U R A I]

I dont see how Pac has improved skill wise

Are you serious?



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[Killa_Kali]

floyd has only gotten better...his accuracy is out the roof...his speed is three times as fast...his defense is damn near flawless now...when you can count on one hand how many times a person hits you...i can't see how that's a decline...i believe that he can go into 154 and wash them up when his welter run is over...

his welter run against cotto, shane, pac, berto? when has that happened? enlighten me.

[rao007]

What?

Speed: look at the speed at 130 to even 140...and the flexibility. Floyd looks a little better back then than now.

Now compare that with Pac who has at least kept his ability up over the years.

Floyd can get away with it because he relies on his technical ability and what he has learned over the years...but he hasn't been forced to keep at a high level or even improve because he hasn't fought Great competition at 147+ that would force him to stay peak/improve.

You do you know Mayweather has had hand problems through out his boxing career? Since like 2001 with Hernendez fight. And leading up to the Hatton fight--I didn't see any change in his agility or speed. Pacquiao's speed has actually diminished over the years since moving up in weight. By the way, how does PEDs help you mantain hand speed?

[aether]

its the steroids.....

[Benny Leonard]

I have two school of thought re Floyd.

a) He may have gotten complacent, I mean, Floyd does make his victories look easy. It's like watching a man play amongst boys.

b)Since he kept moving up in weight, it's obvious that his workrate dropped. Could it be that Floyd is well aware that the bigger guys are hitting much harder than when he was tearin' up the 130-135 divisions. He may very well be a fighter who doesn't like the contact.

OK...take the opponent out of the equation for a second and let's just go with examples of how he looks physically. Would you say he is at the same speed and flexibility now compared to when he was at 130, 135...?

Not so sure myself.

He is still a Zebra, but has that Zebra lost a little step that may cost him to get eaten by the Lion now?

[Killa_Kali]

You do you know Mayweather has had hand problems through out his boxing career? Since like 2001 with Hernendez fight. And leading up to the Hatton fight--I didn't see any change in his agility or speed. Pacquiao's speed has actually diminished over the years since moving up in weight. By the way, how does PEDs help you mantain hand speed?

pac was so slow against diaz, dlh, hatton, and cotto. he should retire.

[Silencers]

I thought about this but that doesn't explain the Hatton fight or the Oscar fight.

Sure, Oscar was still dangerous and bigger...but he could have fought him like he did Diego, no...same with Hatton.

And not just that...his speed doesn't look quite as fast and his movement, especially when he bends over/leans away isn't quite as sharp/fast. His timing is still good...no question.



Actually, Tyson is an example. It was even mentioned in the Ruddock fight that he didn't look quite as fast as he used to during his days with Rooney. It's about the way they trained. I have a good article about how Cus used to train fighters, specifically big Fat Buster Mathis who lost weight, improved and got fast because of the training.
Get rid of the training and the need to improve and even the best can slip no matter what age.
That's why Sprinters can run one time one year and not the next if they don't keep training accordingly.





Cus and Buster:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079455/3/index.htm

Here is something quick from the article:

When Mathis began punching Willie, D'Amato had him throw only one punch every five seconds. Then he gradually speeded up the process, and Mathis can now deliver a five-punch combination in as little as three-fifths of a second. " Frazier couldn't do this," D'Amato says. "He wouldn't have the power, speed, coordination or stamina. Clay couldn't do it either. You have to have done this over a period of months and months."

Every day Mathis goes at least five rounds against Willie. Once, when he complained, D'Amato kept him at it extra hard, and when Mathis was through he had thrown, by D'Amato's count, 12,000 punches. D'Amato says, "I told him Clay had thrown only 1,760 punches in the Chuvalo fight and not to complain again." To which Mathis adds, "When I walk into the ring, I figure I gotta win. No one trains as hard as me, runs as hard as me or has had Cus on his back."

I don't really see what you're seeing in the Hatton and DLH fights, maybe he was just being more economical, doing just enough to win, which is in his mentality, he doesn't really care how he looks as long as he does enough to win.

The only time where I think he's lost a step was against Marquez honestly but that could be because of ring rust, he looked a step slower in that one. But he looked fine to me in the Hatton and DLH fights, to me it was more like him choosing not to do some of the stuff you mentioned moreso than him not being able to.

[Jiddu Dali]

Pac was fighting GREAT fighters south of 135. This is why he didn;t look like god there. No doubt in my mind Pacquiao would have destroyed the corrales and castillo floyd fought.

Which Pac? the 2001 version? You think the 2001 version of Pac beats the Corales that Mayweather fought? ...hmmm interesting. Would have loved to see that.

And the same could be said about Mayweather fighting Berrera and Morales. He would have destroyed those guys @130 or 135lbs...would you not agree?

[S A M U R A I]

his welter run against cotto, shane, pac, berto? when has that happened? enlighten me.

That's what I'm saying. If the Marquez fight is being used as a gauge, I don't think it's possible to tell if he's slipped. Marquez at WW is more stationary than a box of paper clips. Floyd has not been tested in two years, at the very least, and the last test was Ricky Hatton.

How do we gauge him?



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[Jiddu Dali]

Are you serious?

in the past 2-3 years*....I said he has worked on minor things...nothing that just stands out. Simple mechanics..oh and is footwork is much better at the higher weights...... These fighters are who they are.....