The Top 25 Welterweights of All-Time – 11 to 25

[Animalistic 5.0]

Why is Tito in the 20's?

[Thread Stealer]

Armstrong could be ahead of both, to me Robinson's best work was at 160. Although Robinson was clearly a beast at 147 I would say Armstong accomplished more at 147.

A couple things about it that makes is tricky is, where do you rate non-title fights that are a couple of lbs above the weight limit, and what about when you fight bigger guys?

Michael Spinks weighed 176 when he beat Marvin Johnson early in his career, a very good win (and spectacular KO) for Spinks. He's technically over the limit, but many fights take place a pound or two over the limit when it's a non-title bout. Charley Burley was 149 when he twice beat Fritzie Zivic (a WW).

Robinson weighed in the high 140s/low 150s for wins over Kid Gavilan and Jake LaMotta. Since Gavlian was more of a welterweight and LaMotta a MW, should the LaMotta win be counted as a MW win because LaMotta was more of a MW and Gavilan as a WW win since he was a WW, even though Gavlian was over 147 for the fight? Ray weighed 145 for his first two wins over LaMotta, does that count toward WW or MW? He's a welterweight, but beating a middleweight.

Armstrong weighed below the lightweight limit for some of his WELTERWEIGHT title defenses. Do we also take this into consideration when talking about the greatest 135 lb. fighters ever, since Armstrong was the size of one here?

[edgarg]

A couple things about it that makes is tricky is, where do you rate non-title fights that are a couple of lbs above the weight limit, and what about when you fight bigger guys?

Michael Spinks weighed 176 when he beat Marvin Johnson early in his career, a very good win (and spectacular KO) for Spinks. He's technically over the limit, but many fights take place a pound or two over the limit when it's a non-title bout. Charley Burley was 149 when he twice beat Fritzie Zivic (a WW).

Robinson weighed in the high 140s/low 150s for wins over Kid Gavilan and Jake LaMotta. Since Gavlian was more of a welterweight and LaMotta a MW, should the LaMotta win be counted as a MW win because LaMotta was more of a MW and Gavilan as a WW win since he was a WW, even though Gavlian was over 147 for the fight? Ray weighed 145 for his first two wins over LaMotta, does that count toward WW or MW? He's a welterweight, but beating a middleweight.

Armstrong weighed below the lightweight limit for some of his WELTERWEIGHT title defenses. Do we also take this into consideration when talking about the greatest 135 lb. fighters ever, since Armstrong was the size of one here?

No, it makes Robinson's performance as a welterweight more impressive.

[edgarg]

I can't believe people are really making an argument for Leonard as #1? Come on now.

My favorite fighter of all time is Trinidad. And, I would love to put him in the top 10. But, he is not a top 10 WW. I would probably put Tito at #15. But, that might be cuz i'm little biased. My only argument is that Basillo is way ahead of Trinidad. They should be closer together. Me personally would put Trinidad ahead of Basillo.

All I know is Oscar better not be top 10

Whitaker is one of the top 5 greatest LW of all time. But, maybe not top 10 WW.

Here is my top 10 WW list.

1. Sugar Ray Robinso
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Kid Gavillan
4. Jimmy McClarnin
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
6. Sam Langford
7. Jose Napoles
8. Barney Ross
9. Emile Griffith
10. Joe Walcott (the orginal)

I think you can make an argument for Thomas Hearns and Miickey Walker on the top 10 list.

It does look like Pipino Cuevas, Curtis Cokes will not make the list. And, maybe Wilfredo Benitez not make the list all together. I don't think Benitez is a top 10. So I doubt he will make it.

I agree with you about Basilio;Oscar is not on the list at all, Cliff said he "didn't make the cut".

[Obama]

A couple things about it that makes is tricky is, where do you rate non-title fights that are a couple of lbs above the weight limit, and what about when you fight bigger guys?

Michael Spinks weighed 176 when he beat Marvin Johnson early in his career, a very good win (and spectacular KO) for Spinks. He's technically over the limit, but many fights take place a pound or two over the limit when it's a non-title bout. Charley Burley was 149 when he twice beat Fritzie Zivic (a WW).

Robinson weighed in the high 140s/low 150s for wins over Kid Gavilan and Jake LaMotta. Since Gavlian was more of a welterweight and LaMotta a MW, should the LaMotta win be counted as a MW win because LaMotta was more of a MW and Gavilan as a WW win since he was a WW, even though Gavlian was over 147 for the fight? Ray weighed 145 for his first two wins over LaMotta, does that count toward WW or MW? He's a welterweight, but beating a middleweight.

Armstrong weighed below the lightweight limit for some of his WELTERWEIGHT title defenses. Do we also take this into consideration when talking about the greatest 135 lb. fighters ever, since Armstrong was the size of one here?

A fighter's performance should be judged for the weight division of the opponent (should he be lighter than his opponent). So even if a guy is a Middleweight, if he beats a Heavyweight, it goes on his Heavyweight resume. It's the only fair way to do it, because credit has to be given the same way criticism is received. Ie, a loss at Heavyweight would not affect the fighter's credibility at Middleweight.

As for the other way around (the fighter is heavier than the opponent), credit should be given in the weight division of the fighter, and simply scaled down based on how far the other fighter was out of his best weight. The harshness of the criticism should the fighter lose is then consequently scaled up.

2-3 lbs over the limit for non-title fights count as the same weight division.

[tesla_power]

I can't believe people are really making an argument for Leonard as #1? Come on now.

My favorite fighter of all time is Trinidad. And, I would love to put him in the top 10. But, he is not a top 10 WW. I would probably put Tito at #15. But, that might be cuz i'm little biased. My only argument is that Basillo is way ahead of Trinidad. They should be closer together. Me personally would put Trinidad ahead of Basillo.

All I know is Oscar better not be top 10

Whitaker is one of the top 5 greatest LW of all time. But, maybe not top 10 WW.

Here is my top 10 WW list.

1. Sugar Ray Robinso
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Kid Gavillan
4. Jimmy McClarnin
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
6. Sam Langford
7. Jose Napoles
8. Barney Ross
9. Emile Griffith
10. Joe Walcott (the orginal)

I think you can make an argument for Thomas Hearns and Miickey Walker on the top 10 list.

It does look like Pipino Cuevas, Curtis Cokes will not make the list. And, maybe Wilfredo Benitez not make the list all together. I don't think Benitez is a top 10. So I doubt he will make it.

Don't worry too much. If you read the first few lines, Crold stated that Oscar missed the cut. This goes also to some posters who are worried that Oscar could crack top 10.

[crold1]

The list is ridiculous, Tito at 21? WTF? Carmen Basilio out of the top 15?

Complete garbage!!!

Basilio was 13.

A couple things about it that makes is tricky is, where do you rate non-title fights that are a couple of lbs above the weight limit, and what about when you fight bigger guys?

Michael Spinks weighed 176 when he beat Marvin Johnson early in his career, a very good win (and spectacular KO) for Spinks. He's technically over the limit, but many fights take place a pound or two over the limit when it's a non-title bout. Charley Burley was 149 when he twice beat Fritzie Zivic (a WW).

Robinson weighed in the high 140s/low 150s for wins over Kid Gavilan and Jake LaMotta. Since Gavlian was more of a welterweight and LaMotta a MW, should the LaMotta win be counted as a MW win because LaMotta was more of a MW and Gavilan as a WW win since he was a WW, even though Gavlian was over 147 for the fight? Ray weighed 145 for his first two wins over LaMotta, does that count toward WW or MW? He's a welterweight, but beating a middleweight.

Armstrong weighed below the lightweight limit for some of his WELTERWEIGHT title defenses. Do we also take this into consideration when talking about the greatest 135 lb. fighters ever, since Armstrong was the size of one here?

For me, I can give a guy a pound or two...prior to the day before weigh in era. However, for instance at Lightweight, Ike Williams can't get credit for the last win over Beau Jack because they were both well into Welterweight. By the same token, Burley is rated lower here than by others because he really was fighting at Middle even while some rated hm, in his day, at Welter.

I did take what you're saying into account for Armstrong at Lightweight.

[Bhopreign]

Tito and his wraps should be on no list.

[crold1]

Tito and his wraps should be on no list.

Tito's title numbers make him a must for me; his quality of competition was so-so minus some strong exceptions, particularly compared to others on the list. Considering who made the top ten, I find the notion of Tito there unjustifiable.

[Left Hook Tua]

Tito's title numbers make him a must for me; his quality of competition was so-so minus some strong exceptions, particularly compared to others on the list. Considering who made the top ten, I find the notion of Tito there almost comical.

cliff , one of these days , when you a have a slow boxing week , can you do a nice piece on duran?