The Top 25 Welterweights of All-Time – 11 to 25

[Dave Rado]

Has nothing to do with my reasoning.

Your reasoning is based on the unsubstantiated claims of Bouie Fisher. If it had gone to a commission or been investigated by some sort of court or independent authority, and the claims had been substantiated, you might have a case. But that didn't happen.

[Dave Rado]

LMAO at Trinidad not being atleast in the top10 joke JOKE of a list, Trinindad has 15 defenses at welter and took like 5 different champions 0 and destroyed their careers, trinindad EASILY belongs in the top10

How many Hall of Famers did he beat during that run? And of those, how many were non-controversial wins?

[Thread Stealer]

Trinidad having all those defenses is impressive, but it has to be taken into context.

His defenses were different other champions of the past. Tito wasn't THE champ at WW, he was A champ for most of the reign until he unified. He wasn't linear, McGirt was, then Whitaker, then DLH, then Tito (and that decision was questionable). Trinidad won the title from a basically shot Blocker who had suffered brutal KO losses in recent years from Brown and Norris. Trinidad's reign started out well in 94', with wins over undefeated contenders in Carr and Campas. Then he fought weak opposition from 95 through 98, unable to get the big fights. Not his fault, but what are you supposed to do, act like the opposition was better than it was because it wasn't his fault that King wasn't matching him up with the other top WWs? He was the first guy to clearly beat Whitaker, but Whitaker clearly had declined, and was coming of a year and a half of inactivity and drug rehab. The win over DLH was questionable, and Tito looked poor.

When your most credible win is over Oba Carr (whose most notable win up to that point was a gift over Bramble), or Yori Boy Campas, that doesn't bode well for your argument as being one of the ten greatest WELTERWEIGHTS ever, a division rich in history with great fighters.

[crold1]

Trinidad having all those defenses is impressive, but it has to be taken into context.

His defenses were different other champions of the past. Tito wasn't THE champ at WW, he was A champ for most of the reign until he unified. He wasn't linear, McGirt was, then Whitaker, then DLH, then Tito (and that decision was questionable). Trinidad won the title from a basically shot Blocker who had suffered brutal KO losses in recent years from Brown and Norris. Trinidad's reign started out well in 94', with wins over undefeated contenders in Carr and Campas. Then he fought weak opposition from 95 through 98, unable to get the big fights. Not his fault, but what are you supposed to do, act like the opposition was better than it was because it wasn't his fault that King wasn't matching him up with the other top WWs? He was the first guy to clearly beat Whitaker, but Whitaker clearly had declined, and was coming of a year and a half of inactivity and drug rehab. The win over DLH was questionable, and Tito looked poor.

When your most credible win is over Oba Carr (whose most notable win up to that point was a gift over Bramble), or Yori Boy Campas, that doesn't bode well for your argument as being one of the ten greatest WELTERWEIGHTS ever, a division rich in history with great fighters.

Basically my thoughts to a tee. There is a better case to drop Trinidad lower than there is higher. Gotta respect the numbers but we live in an era where guys like Narvaez and Wong can have matching 'record' setting runs at Fly...without fighting each other. There's a silliness to that which can't be ignored. Sometimes, numbers happen in relatively light on talent eras (Hagler and Foster come to mind)...but the were THE man start to finish. makes a difference.

[Thread Stealer]

Basically my thoughts to a tee. There is a better case to drop Trinidad lower than there is higher. Gotta respect the numbers but we live in an era where guys like Narvaez and Wong can have matching 'record' setting runs at Fly...without fighting each other. There's a silliness to that which can't be ignored. Sometimes, numbers happen in relatively light on talent eras (Hagler and Foster come to mind)...but the were THE man start to finish. makes a difference.

I can see Foster, but I don't think the MW era that Hagler ruled was poor.

[tuxtucis]

Tommy Ryan and Thomas Hearns must be far higher, maybe in top 5...