Roy Jones Jr and his "Greatness" ???

[Boxfan12]

In terms of arguing who is better beating leftovers means little. If you are going to rant and rave about RJJ KOing Hill in his next fight after getting destroyed by DM, then I am going to have to bring up DM being the first to KO Harmon which Jones couldn't do. The last time I checked the judges were never involved in stopping the Hall fight. You may have some inside information that I don't have, but I wasn't aware that judges stop fights. DM was winning that fight as well so the stoppage didn't matter. DM dominated Hall in the rematch, so I'm not sure why you would expect them to stop it, also when it didn't even go as long as the first match. And the last time I checked Hall had nearly a year to recover from that first fight, while DM fought again in 4 months. Reread my posts, I never said that RJJ wasn't going to be able to stop Griffin had the fight continued. Again you need to reread my post with regards to who I think would win if you think that I can't give RJJ credit for anything. And the last time I checked I give RJJ loads more credit than you and the other RJJ fans give DM.

you keep going on about DM DM DM. is there anything else other then about how dm would whip roy. Not saying dm couldnt win but jones would make him look like any other oppent. same thing happen to james toney the 168 champ. toney could probably beat jones but why didnt he because jones was damn fast. Jones wouldnt allow dm to connect with a big shot. Jones has been in a 10 period less then any fighter. Even when he got KTFO by tarver is was 1 punch.

[Super_Lightweight]

lol

In terms of arguing who is better beating leftovers means little. If you are going to rant and rave about RJJ KOing Hill in his next fight after getting destroyed by DM, then I am going to have to bring up DM being the first to KO Harmon which Jones couldn't do. The last time I checked the judges were never involved in stopping the Hall fight. You may have some inside information that I don't have, but I wasn't aware that judges stop fights. DM was winning that fight as well so the stoppage didn't matter. DM dominated Hall in the rematch, so I'm not sure why you would expect them to stop it, also when it didn't even go as long as the first match. And the last time I checked Hall had nearly a year to recover from that first fight, while DM fought again in 4 months. Reread my posts, I never said that RJJ wasn't going to be able to stop Griffin had the fight continued. Again you need to reread my post with regards to who I think would win if you think that I can't give RJJ credit for anything. And the last time I checked I give RJJ loads more credit than you and the other RJJ fans give DM.

If anyone is ranting and raving, it is you. I am making a simple point that your information has been misleading. Also, you should take a class on reading comprehension. I never implied judges could stop fights, I said, "One example of fair-scoring does not indicate all his fights were without controversy." The referee's actions were questionable in the fight, not the judges neccessarily. That is pretty easy to interpret by reading my post. Keep up, please. By the way, your info is misleading again because Roy does hold a stoppage win over Harmon (as does DM).

The stoppage of the Hall fight DID matter, whether DM was winning or not, because there were times when it looked as though DM could have been stopped and yet they waited until he came back and hurt HALL and the stopped the fight (which is my opinion). Taking a year to "recover"? Think about that for a second. Effects in a ring war in many cases NEVER go away. I'm simply saying you cannot tell people on here that DM stopped Hall faster than RJJ did without putting it into context; that in fact they both stopped him in the same round, RJ had actually fought him and stoped him 1st, and that DM stopped him earlier than RJJ but in a rematch. There's nothing wrong with stating the whole truth.

Maybe you do give RJJ credit, but I haven't really seen it much because your posts seem to spin things to favor DM. I just want to keep the record in context, and true, that's all. I need not rant or rave about anything.

My opinion on DM for the record is he was the best lightheavy outside of Roy in recent times, deserves the hall of fame, but also that he could have had much more fame and success if he had just fought some top 10 guys in the U.S. However, you cannot detract from what DM did no matter where he fought because it is a fact that he was a badass for a good while.

I don't agree with people who say DM is *********, they probably never watched him fight. He was very good. Additonally, I agree with you about Montell Griffin, he was a very good fighter also (undefeated when he met RJJ and won rounds vs RJJ and DM and also he beat Toney twice). Griffin just didn't have a lot of fans because he had no power and a perceived "boring" style.

[The Troll]

. Not saying dm couldnt win but jones would make him look like any other oppent. same thing happen to james toney the 168 champ. toney could probably beat jones but why didnt he because jones was damn fast. .

YOu comparing Toney and Michalczewski. Toney and Michalczewski have nothing in common at all except the fact they are both good fighters. Jones's style is plain all wrong for Toney, he is a defensive fighter and so is Jones, but Jones is faster so Toney had no Chance. Michalczewski also has faster feet than Toney and and way better more powerfull jab, plus Michalczewski has an agressors style whereas, Toney is not good in the role of the agressor. Jones style is all wrong for Toney straight up. But Michalczewski's style is all wrong for Jones. Styles make fights. Michalczewski in his prime had the pefect style to beat Jones. He would be able to land the quick straight left and that might even be enough to stagger Jones or at least set up his other power punching.

[Super_Lightweight]

lol

Michalczewski also has faster feet than Toney and and way better more powerfull jab, plus Michalczewski has an agressors style whereas, Toney is not good in the role of the agressor. Jones style is all wrong for Toney straight up. But Michalczewski's style is all wrong for Jones. Styles make fights. Michalczewski in his prime had the pefect style to beat Jones. He would be able to land the quick straight left and that might even be enough to stagger Jones or at least set up his other power punching.

Toney has as good footspeed as DM. Easy. He may not use his feet much, but he has just as good footspeed.

DM's style is not all wrong for Jones. The same thing could be said for DM, that Roy's style is DM's demise. Roy has faced bigger and stronger fighters than himself who are aggressive and has beaten them. DM is very good but Roy isn't just going to sit there and trade and get hit. He will get hit rarely, like in all of his fights, and DM will have to be very patient and even then it still might not work.

DM is an orthodox fighter, 2 inches taller than Roy, but Roy has the 4" advantage in reach. If DM was southpaw with longer arms it might be a different story, but even then, Roy has abused southpaws and even beat Tarver when he was past his prime.

If Jones and DM fought, Roy would be all over the place with crazy head movement and he would be the hardest guy to hit that DM has ever faced. Whoever wins the fight would have to be very dedicated and focused with their gameplan. If this is an easy fight, I think more people would agree that it'd be easy for Roy if anyone. We could take a poll perhaps.

[Neuraxis]

If anyone is ranting and raving, it is you. I am making a simple point that your information has been misleading. Also, you should take a class on reading comprehension. I never implied judges could stop fights, I said, "One example of fair-scoring does not indicate all his fights were without controversy." The referee's actions were questionable in the fight, not the judges neccessarily. That is pretty easy to interpret by reading my post. Keep up, please. By the way, your info is misleading again because Roy does hold a stoppage win over Harmon (as does DM).

The stoppage of the Hall fight DID matter, whether DM was winning or not, because there were times when it looked as though DM could have been stopped and yet they waited until he came back and hurt HALL and the stopped the fight (which is my opinion). Taking a year to "recover"? Think about that for a second. Effects in a ring war in many cases NEVER go away. I'm simply saying you cannot tell people on here that DM stopped Hall faster than RJJ did without putting it into context; that in fact they both stopped him in the same round, RJ had actually fought him and stoped him 1st, and that DM stopped him earlier than RJJ but in a rematch. There's nothing wrong with stating the whole truth.

Maybe you do give RJJ credit, but I haven't really seen it much because your posts seem to spin things to favor DM. I just want to keep the record in context, and true, that's all. I need not rant or rave about anything.

My opinion on DM for the record is he was the best lightheavy outside of Roy in recent times, deserves the hall of fame, but also that he could have had much more fame and success if he had just fought some top 10 guys in the U.S. However, you cannot detract from what DM did no matter where he fought because it is a fact that he was a badass for a good while.

I don't agree with people who say DM is *********, they probably never watched him fight. He was very good. Additonally, I agree with you about Montell Griffin, he was a very good fighter also (undefeated when he met RJJ and won rounds vs RJJ and DM and also he beat Toney twice). Griffin just didn't have a lot of fans because he had no power and a perceived "boring" style.

Well maybe you can take the reading comprehension class with me. I said DM was the first person to KO Harmon. Jones did not KO Harmon. I agree somewhat with your analysis of Hall vs. DM I. The only two rounds that Hall clearly won were the 9th and 10th round, but DM came back in the 11th and Hall was doing nothing but getting tagged left and right before the ref jumped in to have the ring doctor look at his eye. I don't know what you are talking about you wanting them to stop the fight when DM was hurt. As far as the ref, I would assume that you are talking about him warning Hall for the kidney punch. Rewatch the round Hall throws another one 10 seconds after being warned, and he throws another one with 10 seconds left in the round when DM had him hurt. If the ref was so bad, Hall is lucky that he didn't have a point deducted, not that it would have mattered though. I also agree with your analysis of the effects of a ring war. Take for instance DM vs. Hill. Hill goes through a brutal fight with DM and then in his next fight he, he fights RJJ. It works both ways. At least we seem to be coming to more common ground here.

[Neuraxis]

you keep going on about DM DM DM. is there anything else other then about how dm would whip roy. Not saying dm couldnt win but jones would make him look like any other oppent. same thing happen to james toney the 168 champ. toney could probably beat jones but why didnt he because jones was damn fast. Jones wouldnt allow dm to connect with a big shot. Jones has been in a 10 period less then any fighter. Even when he got KTFO by tarver is was 1 punch.

Toney doesn't have anywhere near DM's power though.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

Well maybe you can take the reading comprehension class with me. I said DM was the first person to KO Harmon. Jones did not KO Harmon. I agree somewhat with your analysis of Hall vs. DM I. The only two rounds that Hall clearly won were the 9th and 10th round, but DM came back in the 11th and Hall was doing nothing but getting tagged left and right before the ref jumped in to have the ring doctor look at his eye. I don't know what you are talking about you wanting them to stop the fight when DM was hurt. As far as the ref, I would assume that you are talking about him warning Hall for the kidney punch. Rewatch the round Hall throws another one 10 seconds after being warned, and he throws another one with 10 seconds left in the round when DM had him hurt. If the ref was so bad, Hall is lucky that he didn't have a point deducted, not that it would have mattered though. I also agree with your analysis of the effects of a ring war. Take for instance DM vs. Hill. Hill goes through a brutal fight with DM and then in his next fight he, he fights RJJ. It works both ways. At least we seem to be coming to more common ground here.

It doesn't always work simply though. Hill still had 3-4 good years left in him when DM beat him, and you have to consider that one single punch KO'd him and to that point Hill had never been KO'd. Hall was never as good a fighter as Hill was, and DM really took Richard Hall's prime away. My point is this, to be clear...Hall was finsihed off by DM, but Hill was not. Hill had plenty in the tank after fighting Roy, and did not lose due to age or a long grueling fight to Roy, but rather got blasted with one punch.

The problem I have with you saying DM was the first to "KO" Harmon is that it is misleading to some people who don't know their history...makes it sound like Harmon had never been stopped up to that point. Of course, he was stopped vs RJJ (busted eardrum).

With regards to the ref, I don't really think he was awful, but he didn't do a great job either and in my opinion he was biased in favor of DM, and perhaps might have stopped DM at some point if he were not in favor of DM. However, I agree that the stoppage itself of Hall was legit, because Hall was getting torn into and his eye was ****ed up. I did not mean to imply the ref was so bad, perhaps I should have been clearer. My overall point is there were enough shenanigans in Germany to make it unreasonable to expect Roy to fight there. It just would not be worth the risk regardless of the promoter (in my opinion). Also I think it's fair to note that DM was just a bit past his prime when he fought Hall.

[Neuraxis]

It doesn't always work simply though. Hill still had 3-4 good years left in him when DM beat him, and you have to consider that one single punch KO'd him and to that point Hill had never been KO'd. Hall was never as good a fighter as Hill was, and DM really took Richard Hall's prime away. My point is this, to be clear...Hall was finsihed off by DM, but Hill was not. Hill had plenty in the tank after fighting Roy, and did not lose due to age or a long grueling fight to Roy, but rather got blasted with one punch.

The problem I have with you saying DM was the first to "KO" Harmon is that it is misleading to some people who don't know their history...makes it sound like Harmon had never been stopped up to that point. Of course, he was stopped vs RJJ (busted eardrum).

With regards to the ref, I don't really think he was awful, but he didn't do a great job either and in my opinion he was biased in favor of DM, and perhaps might have stopped DM at some point if he were not in favor of DM. However, I agree that the stoppage itself of Hall was legit, because Hall was getting torn into and his eye was ****ed up. I did not mean to imply the ref was so bad, perhaps I should have been clearer. My overall point is there were enough shenanigans in Germany to make it unreasonable to expect Roy to fight there. It just would not be worth the risk regardless of the promoter (in my opinion). Also I think it's fair to note that DM was just a bit past his prime when he fought Hall.

I think that the Hall/Hill issue also has to do with the fact that Hill is an ATG and Hall is not. And as far as DM being past his prime when he fought Hall, I've been saying all along that RJJ would have beaten DM after 2000 pretty easily.

[NAB]

The James Toney that Jones fought was faster, smarter & generally about 3 levels above DM. And Toney could barely get near RJJ, let alone land a solid punch. Who cares about power if you're not landing?

[The Troll]

The James Toney that Jones fought was faster, smarter & generally about 3 levels above DM. And Toney could barely get near RJJ, let alone land a solid punch. Who cares about power if you're not landing?

Toney is a defensive fighter, that is the last style you want against Roy Jones Jr. and Michalczewski has a polar opposite agressors style than Toney, plus he moves better on his feet. Toney is horrible as an agressor and thats the style you need against Jones.