Rocky Marciano Statue To Be Built By The WBC

[The Hammer]

It's all in opinion, I guess. In my books, he's an all-time great heavyweight.

In my books too!

Most of the Marciano-bashers discredit EVERY European/white fighter, so I probably shouldn't take them too seriously.

[TheGreatA]

No, he isn't revered by everyone as one of the greatest. Can't you read?

People like Steve Farhood, Teddy Atlas, Max Kellerman, and Al Bernstein have said they don't rate Marciano as a ATG heavyweight. Several people on boxingscene, including comments in this thread, have parroted what they've said.

I was really disappointed when Canada's Russ Anber was unfairly discrediting Rocky during a televised special of Rocky's fights on Canada's TSN. I e-mailed TSN to let them know, and made a thread at the time on ESB encouraging others to do the same.

And where did you find out this knowledge?

"Sure Charles wasn't the fighter he once was and Louis was shot," said boxing historian and former ESPN analyst Max Kellerman. "But for their first fight, Walcott was in his prime and Moore was a legitimate contender into his 40s."

Sounds pretty reasonable.

[ShoulderRoll]

You just have to learn to be objective when it comes to Marciano.

He was undefeated but that doesn't mean he was the greatest ever. The best guys he fought were either old (Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott) or blown up light heayweights (Ezzard Charles) or BOTH old and blown up (Archie Moore.)

[EuropeFightFan]

This is a great tribute to a true legend of the ring...one of the sport's good guys who left us all too soon.

One day two statues will be built for the Klitschko brothers and it will get all the same jealousy and hate as this one for Rocky for the same reason.

[Slimey Limey]

You just have to learn to be objective when it comes to Marciano.

He was undefeated but that doesn't mean he was the greatest ever. The best guys he fought were either old (Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott) or blown up light heayweights (Ezzard Charles) or BOTH old and blown up (Archie Moore.)

You're telling people to be objective and then go on to discredit just about every great win the man had?
They were all good wins that he should get full credit for except for the one against Joe Louis. THAT is objective. I guess Marciano was too white for ******s like you to respect him.

Do you smack your head against walls daily mate?

[Slimey Limey]

In my books too!

Most of the Marciano-bashers discredit EVERY European/white fighter, so I probably shouldn't take them too seriously.

I think that TheGreat****** is only defending Marciano because of some agenda he has. He should be ignored with all the other anti-white posters.

[Slimey Limey]

Thanks for the karma TheGreat******. Feel like getting caught with your pants down innit? You don't fool anyone with your anti-Marciano propaganda.

[The_Demon]

This is a great tribute to a true legend of the ring...one of the sport's good guys who left us all too soon.

One day two statues will be built for the Klitschko brothers and it will get all the same jealousy and hate as this one for Rocky for the same reason.

because their records simply arent as good as other great heavies? i agree

now i wait for the race card

[The Hammer]

I think that TheGreat****** is only defending Marciano because of some agenda he has. He should be ignored with all the other anti-white posters.

Yes indeed. He's subtle in the way he goes about it, but he's one of the worst Euro-haters on the site. Oh, and he's not really Finnish - if he was, like Alec900, he'd be interested in Helenius who has two big fights coming up.

[edgarg]

How far gone were Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott?

Marciano received a split decision over Roland LaStarza the first time due to a knockdown he scored. In the case of a draw, as the referee had it, the fighter who scored a knockdown would receive the decision in supplemental scoring.

Rocky "avenged" the controversy years later with a decisive TKO win.

All I can do is give my opinion, but I must tell you that my opinion is based on hard facts, for at least 2 reasons. 1) I was very involved in boxing all through Rocky's career, and read lots about him. 2) I have a large cardboard carton full to the brim with RING , BOXING ILLUSTRATE#D and several other boxing magazines, which cover from well before Rocky started, to long after he'd retired.

As a matter of fact I have a 1952 Ring, with an interview by Nat Loubet with Rocky. Nat at that time was one of the leading boxing reporters and journalists in the country, and later became RING publisher.

One of the things that Rocky said was that he was still learning and has quite a few good fights to come yet. Floyd Patterson was mentioned either later in the article or on another page. He was tearing tearing through the Heavyweight ranks like a wildfire. His manager referred to as the "eccetric" Cus D'Amato hated the Mafia or any control over him or any of his fighters, and Patterson was looked on at the next Champ, even though he'd had only about, maybe, 20 fights. It was the way he was winning. He was also an OLympic Gold Medal winner at middleweight.

To get to the finale of this little story, 6 days later, after the RING interview was published, where Rocky said he would be fighting for a few years yet, Rocky announced his retirement, citing his wife's disapproval of him fighting.

Now to get to your comments. Moore was 40 years old or more, a boxing marvel, no doubt, but a light heavy, and years past his best. He KD'd Rocky in, I think, the 2nd rd. and the ref very obviously got in his way for just long enough, when Marciano was getting up, woozy. It took 9 long rounds to beat Archie, although he went down a few times he didn't stay down. So much for Rocky's punching power [ like Sam Peter's??] At the time, Moore had had about 200 fights.

Before Moore was Don ****ell, an English lt.heavyweight champ with glandular trouble and uncontrollable eating habits. Also with about v80 fights of which he'd lost 10 or 11. He also went 9 or 10 rounds.

Ezzard Charles was about 34 and already beginning too suffer from the disease which killed him some years later at age 55. His best days were long, LONG gone and he fought hammer and tongs with Rocky. Within a year after fighting Rocky, Ezz, until retirement had lost about 15 of his last 20 fights. And had already lost 10 fights before he fought Marciano twice in 3 months. I think he KD'd Marciano a couple of times, and split his nose badly and they wwere going to stop the fight. He was built up lt. heavy. Great in his day, but that was LONG behind him. He had to keep fighting.

Jersey Joe was nearly 40, had lost 17 fights before he fought Marciano in a LONG LONG tough fight. I think he KD'd him too. He fought the return in withing 6 months. Didn't put up any kind of fight, and was "KO'd" in the first. he never fought again.

So you're asking me how far gone were they?? You could answer that yourself, if you get the correct and factual information. I could give you the REAL pertinent facts about Carmine Vingo and Roland LaStarza, not to mention Lee Savold...that is, if you wish.
You'd probably be surprised, as even I was, although I knew Rocky wasn't very good.
I just didn't know then exactly how bad his opponents were,

He was champ for about 3 years with 6 "defences", and it was interesting to note that after his first pro fight against a ham&egger named Epperson, he "managed" [maybe through his connected manager] somehow...to get reinstated to amateurism, so that he could try-out for the Olympics. He only had about 10 amateur fights altogether.

I almost forgot. The complete boxing business was controlled by the Mafia, almost from top to bottom, trainers, boxers, judges, promoters, and you name it, even Madison Sq. Garden. Rocky's manager All Weill was "connected" to use the requisite euphemism
His trainer was , I think Angelo Dundee was Charlie Goldman's assistant trainer. It's also very interesting to know that Chris Dundee the promoter was also reputed to be "connected" as was.............the young pilot of the plane that crashed killing Rocky and everyone else. I remember the pilot was described as the nephew of a connected mobster.

Did anyone know that when he retired, he went down to Mexico for a few exhibitions he'd arranged, and was able to keep all the money. He was described as having a great "devotion to the dollar". Also another unkind comment going the rounds at that time was that all of Rocky's best opponents were "old enough to be elected "president".

I've got lots more, but maybe no one is interested.