Rocky Marciano Statue To Be Built By The WBC

[GJC]

I would not say the era that Marciano fought in was the strongest but I cannot think of a fighter that he ducked he fought everyone who was credible and had positioned themselves for a shot.
I personally would favour Marciano strongly over Patterson and believe that whilst he may not have retained his 0 that he would have had the beating of a post 1946 Louis and all the heavys up to the late 50's Liston. I qualify the post 1946 Louis comment by saying I think prime for prime Louis would have the beating of Marcianomore often than not but by the end of the war Louis was fading fast.
In answer to the question I'm suprised that Marciano's home town have waited so long to have a statue of him.

[edgarg]

Patterson only started pro boxing in 52 and had only had a couple of fights.
Also Patterson had only a couple of fights at Heavy up until Marciano retired.

As to the Mafia links re Marciano these have been thrown up time and time again with little proof. Pretty much any succesful Italian singer, film star, sportsman and businessman is going to "know" other Italian Americans who have a connection with the Mafia

I apologise, and you are quite right. The magazine was of course a 1956 one, not 1952, since Rocky officially retired in 1956 and it took me all this time to see where I'd gone wrong.

With the correct magazine date of 1956, everything I said about the Loubet interview and the subsequent almost instant retirement of Rocky, is also correct.

Also Floyd Patterson's record. Sorry, again.

[Ravens Fan]

No, I didn't intend that he should be regarded as a career-defining win. I was just showing, the way I showed about Ross, with his 17-0 record, that he wasn't fit to fight anybody who could fight. That his worn out state, and multiple losses made him a perfect candidate to build up Rocky's record, even at the late stage of 2-3 fights before he became champion.

A pathetic imbecile called SLIMEY has latched onto me as an outlet for his poorly directed venom, who accuses me of "blackmailing" Rocky, who has been dead for dozens of years, and whom I never came into contact with.

I hope that neither you nor anyone else thinks that this is so. Since I have nothing against Rocky, I can be as candid as I feel. This exchange of views and viewpoints is an interesting one, to me anyway.

I went back and read all your post and and I have a few issues to address.
First off I don't understand how you can pass judgment on Rocky on the basis of his fourth fight and a fight he fought four fights before he faced Walcott. So, lets look at Ross. He had sixteen fights and Rocky was fighting in his fourth fight. All I can ask, whats the big deal? I may be repeating myself but you make it sound as if Rocky is the only fighter that fought a tomato can early in his career. When in reality if you look at almost all fighters you find all kinds of stiffs littering their early records. And again with Savold. Whether he was a bum or not he was a recognizable name. And it is a rather common occurrence for this to happen in the sport of boxing. So, I have to ask why do you find it so unusual that Rocky fought him? And I also have to ask is it your opinion that Rocky should not have even fought for the title? Now, onto some other issues.

First I would like to state that I am in no way going minimize the tragic and always fatal Lou Gehrig's disease. But, in one of your post you make it sound like Ezzard, because of affects of ALS, had one foot in the grave when he fought Rocky. However, Charles died from the disease twenty one years after he fought Rocky when 80% of the victims diagnosed with the disease die within the first three to five years and the other 20% live for ten years or longer after being diagnosed. I am no doctor and I have no idea what the possibilities are that a victim of ALS could live for over twenty years after being diagnosed. But, at the very least I believe there are plenty of questions unanswered on just how affected Charles was in the 1950's by a disease that killed him more then two decades latter.

I also have to ask if you have confused Rocky with someone else? I only ask because with all this mob talk you make him sound like he was the second coming of Primo Carnera. As someone already stated on the thread it seems that all Italian Americans that made something of themselves have always been questioned about "their connections." Wait, let me correct that. You do not even have to be famous and I will explain my own experience. I happen to be of Italian descent and my family roots go back to Brooklyn, NY. And when I was going to school in rural Maryland many of my classmates, knowing I had a large Italian family in Brooklyn, would always ask how many of my family members were in the Mafia. Instead of informing them that there are most likely millions of people of Italian descent in the New York area and only a very tiny percentage "were connected," I did the opposite. I would play on their ignorance and tell them that I have these uncles, named "Two Ton" Tony and "Three Toes" Joey, that would "Cut your troat" in a New York second. By the way I did not misspell throat the word just has a silent H in Brooklyn. And the reality of it is that everything I know about the Italian Mafia I leaned from watching the movie "Goodfellas." But please don't tell anyone because I have to much fun with ignorant people. And with that said I have to ask if Rocky's name ended with a Ski instead of an O would there be so much speculation on just how "connected he was"?

There is one last issue I want to focus on. You will tear apart Rocky's career and then you somehow see fit to defend Floyd Patterson's career. To me that is somewhat laughable. I am not even going to discuss the Rocky- Moore-Floyd aspect because that has already been played out on the thread. Again, I will sate that I am no expert but Floyd seems to have lost to most of the good heavyweight he fought. And with title challengers on his resume such as McNeeley one can find plenty enough to discredit Floyd. And that was without even mentioning his fight with Radamacher which has to be one of the most bizarre events in boxing history.

In closing I will say that I have nothing against Floyd Patterson and even though he lost to some great heavyweights he also won his share and defended his title and was the first two time champ etc, etc, etc. And I could go on but my point is that I can look at Floyd and take the good with the bad were as your opinion of Rocky seems to be completely negative. Negative from his fourth fight to the end of career and even to his post boxing life. To be honest I don't understand why you discredit Rocky at ever turn and it seems to go deeper then you seem to want to admit. What happened, did you at one time bet the house for him to lose and you lost?

[TheGreatA]

No, I didn't intend that he should be regarded as a career-defining win. I was just showing, the way I showed about Ross, with his 17-0 record, that he wasn't fit to fight anybody who could fight. That his worn out state, and multiple losses made him a perfect candidate to build up Rocky's record, even at the late stage of 2-3 fights before he became champion.

A pathetic imbecile called SLIMEY has latched onto me as an outlet for his poorly directed venom, who accuses me of "blackmailing" Rocky, who has been dead for dozens of years, and whom I never came into contact with.

I hope that neither you nor anyone else thinks that this is so. Since I have nothing against Rocky, I can be as candid as I feel. This exchange of views and viewpoints is an interesting one, to me anyway.

Slimey Limey is an idiot who should be ignored. He probably doesn't even care about Rocky Marciano, all he does is try to annoy people on the internet.

Fortunately he has been banned for about the 10th time from these forums.

[Jim Jeffries]

Yes I understand that making Floyd look good was not your intention, but that's the way it reads. Yes, Rocky should have fought Valdez and Patterson.

I think Patterson was a fine boxer, with extremely fast hands. If his chin had been a bit better ...... but my post doesn't read anything of the sort. Saying Rocky should've fought Floyd is absurd, as Rocky's last fight was in Sept of 55. Patterson was still fighting LHWs in Oct of 55.

Pray tell when should Rocky have fought Nino Valdes?

[edgarg]

I went back and read all your post and and I have a few issues to address.
First off I don't understand how you can pass judgment on Rocky on the basis of his fourth fight and a fight he fought four fights before he faced Walcott. So, lets look at Ross. He had sixteen fights and Rocky was fighting in his fourth fight. All I can ask, whats the big deal? I may be repeating myself but you make it sound as if Rocky is the only fighter that fought a tomato can early in his career. When in reality if you look at almost all fighters you find all kinds of stiffs littering their early records. And again with Savold. Whether he was a bum or not he was a recognizable name. And it is a rather common occurrence for this to happen in the sport of boxing. So, I have to ask why do you find it so unusual that Rocky fought him? And I also have to ask is it your opinion that Rocky should not have even fought for the title? Now, onto some other issues.

First I would like to state that I am in no way going minimize the tragic and always fatal Lou Gehrig's disease. But, in one of your post you make it sound like Ezzard, because of affects of ALS, had one foot in the grave when he fought Rocky. However, Charles died from the disease twenty one years after he fought Rocky when 80% of the victims diagnosed with the disease die within the first three to five years and the other 20% live for ten years or longer after being diagnosed. I am no doctor and I have no idea what the possibilities are that a victim of ALS could live for over twenty years after being diagnosed. But, at the very least I believe there are plenty of questions unanswered on just how affected Charles was in the 1950's by a disease that killed him more then two decades latter.

I also have to ask if you have confused Rocky with someone else? I only ask because with all this mob talk you make him sound like he was the second coming of Primo Carnera. As someone already stated on the thread it seems that all Italian Americans that made something of themselves have always been questioned about "their connections." Wait, let me correct that. You do not even have to be famous and I will explain my own experience. I happen to be of Italian descent and my family roots go back to Brooklyn, NY. And when I was going to school in rural Maryland many of my classmates, knowing I had a large Italian family in Brooklyn, would always ask how many of my family members were in the Mafia. Instead of informing them that there are most likely millions of people of Italian descent in the New York area and only a very tiny percentage "were connected," I did the opposite. I would play on their ignorance and tell them that I have these uncles, named "Two Ton" Tony and "Three Toes" Joey, that would "Cut your troat" in a New York second. By the way I did not misspell throat the word just has a silent H in Brooklyn. And the reality of it is that everything I know about the Italian Mafia I leaned from watching the movie "Goodfellas." But please don't tell anyone because I have to much fun with ignorant people. And with that said I have to ask if Rocky's name ended with a Ski instead of an O would there be so much speculation on just how "connected he was"?

There is one last issue I want to focus on. You will tear apart Rocky's career and then you somehow see fit to defend Floyd Patterson's career. To me that is somewhat laughable. I am not even going to discuss the Rocky- Moore-Floyd aspect because that has already been played out on the thread. Again, I will sate that I am no expert but Floyd seems to have lost to most of the good heavyweight he fought. And with title challengers on his resume such as McNeeley one can find plenty enough to discredit Floyd. And that was without even mentioning his fight with Radamacher which has to be one of the most bizarre events in boxing history.

In closing I will say that I have nothing against Floyd Patterson and even though he lost to some great heavyweights he also won his share and defended his title and was the first two time champ etc, etc, etc. And I could go on but my point is that I can look at Floyd and take the good with the bad were as your opinion of Rocky seems to be completely negative. Negative from his fourth fight to the end of career and even to his post boxing life. To be honest I don't understand why you discredit Rocky at ever turn and it seems to go deeper then you seem to want to admit. What happened, did you at one time bet the house for him to lose and you lost?

My reason for discussing Rocky's career in the way I do is because of the undeserved adulation he gets, when better and more deserving fighters are ignored. Also, and a very BIG also, his career is seen through "rose coloured glasses" when the truth is less edifying. The main reason, since I'm a creature of logic, is that I just can' t
understand why, when the actual truth is available. I prize truth.

And not to forget, it's also an interesting intellectual exercise, and a lesson to me on how legends are created.

I'm not trying to tear his career down, just put it in proper perspective. And I was deeply involved in boxing all through his career, and saw and heardeverything going on, at least at second-hand, and occasionally first-hand..

In those days Italians and mafia were almost synonymous, however little it was deserved. Here's a story about that.

Many years ago I was working in the Middle East, and met an elderly couple from Chicago. Immediately I asked them about Capone, and the gang wars etc, which were interesting to me. Much to my surprise, but confirmed elsewhere several times, they told me that they never heard or saw anything out of the ordinary, except what they read in the newspapers.

It happens to be a fact that the nafia were deep in everything to do with boxing, which, of all the major sports, lent itself to mafia control, since many or most of the boxers, and trainers etc, came from poverty stricken areas where the mafia was more powerful than the US government.

I t was just towards the end, I think, Of Rocky's career, that the US Senate began to have hearings and investigations about mafia control, which was the beginning of the end. People, until then regarded as respectable businesmen, went to jail, the monopoly on the Madison Sq Gardens was broken, I think also.

Anyway,my point is that I have nothing against Rocky, I just think he was a poor champion, based on his skills, and it strikes me, anyway- that he had a manufactured path to the title, which must have made the mobsters untold millions.

And I agree with your comment about everybody fighting stiffs at the begining of their career, but no champion that I know of (I may have overlooked someone) has had such a poor crop of opponents, many of whom, themselves, were being built up for a payday.

We see more now, than we could then, because of the internet, and records being available, and, to be frank, the fact that curiosity often pushes us into diverse paths, which sometime turn out to be interesting.

This is one of them.

[{It didn't matter to Patterson or D'Amato that Floyd was really a lt heavy. He carried his power with him and was very successful with heavyweights.}]

[edgarg]

Slimey Limey is an idiot who should be ignored. He probably doesn't even care about Rocky Marciano, all he does is try to annoy people on the internet.

Fortunately he has been banned for about the 10th time from these forums.

Thank you for the info anout SLIMEY, I appreciate it.

[edgarg]

I think Patterson was a fine boxer, with extremely fast hands. If his chin had been a bit better ...... but my post doesn't read anything of the sort. Saying Rocky should've fought Floyd is absurd, as Rocky's last fight was in Sept of 55. Patterson was still fighting LHWs in Oct of 55.

Pray tell when should Rocky have fought Nino Valdes?

Going by his normal curriculum vita, it should have been in 1955 after Valdez had 2 losses in a row, against Satterfield and another I can't rcall.

[BattlingNelson]

Is it only me that find it slightly hypocritical that a bastard pocketfilling alphabet boy takes the privilege to gain PR by raising a statue of one of the most iconic champions in history?

This tiny outburst of mine is because said alphabet boy didn't even exist at the time Rocky was champion and they didn't even 'crown' a heavyweight champion untill 1978 when they made Ken Norton their champ.

I find it pretty tasteless, but not unsurprising given the tainted history of the alphabetboys.

[Ravens Fan]

My reason for discussing Rocky's career in the way I do is because of the undeserved adulation he gets, when better and more deserving fighters are ignored. Also, and a very BIG also, his career is seen through "rose coloured glasses" when the truth is less edifying. The main reason, since I'm a creature of logic, is that I just can' t
understand why, when the actual truth is available. I prize truth.

And not to forget, it's also an interesting intellectual exercise, and a lesson to me on how legends are created.

I'm not trying to tear his career down, just put it in proper perspective. And I was deeply involved in boxing all through his career, and saw and heardeverything going on, at least at second-hand, and occasionally first-hand..

In those days Italians and mafia were almost synonymous, however little it was deserved. Here's a story about that.

Many years ago I was working in the Middle East, and met an elderly couple from Chicago. Immediately I asked them about Capone, and the gang wars etc, which were interesting to me. Much to my surprise, but confirmed elsewhere several times, they told me that they never heard or saw anything out of the ordinary, except what they read in the newspapers.

It happens to be a fact that the nafia were deep in everything to do with boxing, which, of all the major sports, lent itself to mafia control, since many or most of the boxers, and trainers etc, came from poverty stricken areas where the mafia was more powerful than the US government.

I t was just towards the end, I think, Of Rocky's career, that the US Senate began to have hearings and investigations about mafia control, which was the beginning of the end. People, until then regarded as respectable businesmen, went to jail, the monopoly on the Madison Sq Gardens was broken, I think also.

Anyway,my point is that I have nothing against Rocky, I just think he was a poor champion, based on his skills, and it strikes me, anyway- that he had a manufactured path to the title, which must have made the mobsters untold millions.

And I agree with your comment about everybody fighting stiffs at the begining of their career, but no champion that I know of (I may have overlooked someone) has had such a poor crop of opponents, many of whom, themselves, were being built up for a payday.

We see more now, than we could then, because of the internet, and records being available, and, to be frank, the fact that curiosity often pushes us into diverse paths, which sometime turn out to be interesting.

This is one of them.

[{It didn't matter to Patterson or D'Amato that Floyd was really a lt heavy. He carried his power with him and was very successful with heavyweights.}]

I want you to understand that I don't look at Marciano's career through rose colored glasses. They are in fact very clear glasses and I will state again what I see. I see a short and limited fighter who made up for his short comings with heart and determination. I also stated earlier that I believed that Rocky belonged in at least the top fifteen of the heavyweight champions, I believe he would be around ten or twelve. And if you going to claim that Rocky's career was fixed I just ask where is the proof? And if you cannot produce any then there needs to be an asterisk next to every fighters record that fought in the 1940's and 1950's. Because like Rocky's their record should also come under su****ion that the fix was on. I mean you can't really just pick Rocky out of thousands of fighters when you have no real proof, can you?