Floyd Mayweather vs Juan Manuel Marquez

[Brother Mouzone]

I don't think the layoff mattered for Mayweather. He was still training

This is true .This point , though is part of what makes Floyd an ATG that dude was disciplined AF all year round .

[TintaBoricua]

to be hoenst, jmm was never really THAT good, he just has the perfect style for manny and since pacman was so dominate at that time, it made marquez look like he was a lot better than he really is.... but when jmm fought against other great fighters, he was nothing special... i mean just look at his fight against tim bradley LOL.

JMM was a very good fighter, he just wasn’t phenomenal in any particular department like Floyd was with his defense or Pacquiao with his offense. He didn’t have movie star good looks nor did he have a charismatic personality. Marquez gets his flowers but he never had superstar appeal or that “it” factor.

Stylistically, he was an excellent combination counter-puncher. The difference between him and Floyd (as counter-punchers) was that Floyd was a very clean counter puncher. He’d make you miss, clock you and get out or parry, tag you, and wheel away. Marquez on the other hand would stick his head in the fan and get into skirmishes…75-80% time he’d end up winning it and his uppercut was absolute dynamite.

By the end of March 2008 when he had his second fight with Pacquiao, a lot of people I think were look on at him as an entertaining fighter…which was perhaps kind of an exaggeration. Marquez could stink up the joint because he was a counterpuncher through and through, but he was able to look sensational anytime he had a come forward fighter, which is why his fights with Pacquiao (1, 2 and 4), Juan Diaz (1) and Katsidis are a glitzy showcase for his counter punching combination prowess.

[TintaBoricua]

Ok so if that is the case, why did Mayweather need every conceivable advantage to fight him.

He already had a natural height/reach advantage, and Marquez certainly was untested two weightclasses up

I don’t think Marquez could’ve ever beaten Mayweather at 147, 144…nor did it matter whether or not Marquez had acclimated to the weight as he did by 2013-2013.

A lot of people tend to overlook the fact that the fight originally was scheduled for July 2009 but got pushed back to September 2009 which benefitted Marquez to get more accustomed.

All the reasons above and the fact that Marquez looked good in later fights in his final years at welterweight (against power punchers) to me don’t convince me nevertheless that he would’ve fared much better against a defensive wizard like Floyd.

[djtmal]

I don’t think Marquez could’ve ever beaten Mayweather at 147, 144…nor did it matter whether or not Marquez had acclimated to the weight as he did by 2013-2013.

A lot of people tend to overlook the fact that the fight originally was scheduled for July 2009 but got pushed back to September 2009 which benefitted Marquez to get more accustomed.

All the reasons above and the fact that Marquez looked good in later fights in his final years at welterweight (against power punchers) to me don’t convince me nevertheless that he would’ve fared much better against a defensive wizard like Floyd.

Ok so again if you don't think Marquez would have beaten Mayweather, why did Floyd not honor the catchweight agreement, being that he held every conceivable advantage naturally, plus Marquez was totally untested at 147. Having an extra two months isn't gonna make him a full fledged ww imo

[TintaBoricua]

Ok so again if you don't think Marquez would have beaten Mayweather, why did Floyd not honor the catchweight agreement, being that he held every conceivable advantage naturally, plus Marquez was totally untested at 147. Having an extra two months isn't gonna make him a full fledged ww imo

You’re right, he would’ve had to have several fights for him to grow into it.

I’m all for criticizing Floyd for what he did coming in past the originally agreed upon limit weight (they changed it on the day of contractually).

All I’m saying is that in the larger scope of things, when I look at Marquez’s later career at welterweight giving Pacquiao hell when the media said he was “too small”, and yet he continued to give him hell two more fights, holding his own against Timothy Bradley, and knocked down and beat Mike Alvarado…he was a always a great fighter BUT…

Having said all that, I don’t give Floyd a lot of grief for that (and believe me, there are a lot of other things to give him grief about) because I always chalk it up to Floyd just being a bad match-up for a style like Marquez’s. I never saw anything post 2008 (from Marquez) that would’ve flustered Mayweather. Is it admonishable what Floyd did? Yes. Do I think that deviated a lot from the end result of the fight? No, not really.

[B Phontain]

Lots of excuses for a guy who was #2 p4p in the world. Floyd aint no big guy. He didn't weight bully Marquez. He just gave him hands. He was coming off a year and some change layoff. He took even longer because he got injured in camp. You could literally see the rib sticking out of Floyd's side.

Because of the injury marquez had EVEN more time to get to the weight. What made it so impressive to me is Marquez with all those skills couldn't even make it a decent performance. He looked like he didn't belong in the ring with a guy knocking off ring rust and a injury. I personally thought it was very impressive

[djtmal]

You’re right, he would’ve had to have several fights for him to grow into it.

I’m all for criticizing Floyd for what he did coming in past the originally agreed upon limit weight (they changed it on the day of contractually).

All I’m saying is that in the larger scope of things, when I look at Marquez’s later career at welterweight giving Pacquiao hell when the media said he was “too small”, and yet he continued to give him hell two more fights, holding his own against Timothy Bradley, and knocked down and beat Mike Alvarado…he was a always a great fighter BUT…

Having said all that, I don’t give Floyd a lot of grief for that (and believe me, there are a lot of other things to give him grief about) because I always chalk it up to Floyd just being a bad match-up for a style like Marquez’s. I never saw anything post 2008 (from Marquez) that would’ve flustered Mayweather. Is it admonishable what Floyd did? Yes. Do I think that deviated a lot from the end result of the fight? No, not really.

Ok so the point is this was a blatant cherrypick.

So when people call Floyd a cherrypicker, we can refer back to these statements

[TintaBoricua]

Ok so the point is this was a blatant cherrypick.

So when people call Floyd a cherrypicker, we can refer back to these statements

A “cherry-pick”, sure. Double standards between May and Pac, but whatever.
Tomayto, tomahto.

[djtmal]

A “cherry-pick”, sure. Double standards between May and Pac, but whatever.
Tomayto, tomahto.

We not talking about Manny though we talking about Floyd the guy who is his own boss until it's time to take accountability

At least you acknowledge the blatant cherrypick which is more than most Floyd fanboys do

[TintaBoricua]

We not talking about Manny though we talking about Floyd the guy who is his own boss until it's time to take accountability

At least you acknowledge the blatant cherrypick which is more than most Floyd fanboys do

I was being sarcastic.

“Cherrypicked” is a woefully overused term these days.

A cherry-pick to me is something like when somebody who absolutely is nowhere nearly enough skilled or merit (recent wins, overall resume) getting chosen.

ie…Danny Garcia fighting Rod Salka.

ie…Canelo fighting Berlanga.

The latter was strictly chosen because it was formulaic. An undefeated Puerto Rican, power puncher, wears the black hat of the narrative…

I know Floyd got a lot of flack for beating up on Marquez in the immediate aftermath, but post 2009 Marquez showed he was still a threat at 147.

You’re asking me why did Floyd need every conceivable advantage? ****, my guess is as good as yours.

Your assumption is just su****ion. We’re going in circles. That fight was 12-0 or 11-1 at best. If people had clamored for a rematch when Marquez iced Manny, I still think Floyd at his worst would’ve beaten Marquez in my humble opinion.

What you’re sounding like is sorta like me when I get cranky about Manny Pacquiao allowing both Oscar de la Hoya and Joshua Clottey fight at the full 147 pound weight limit but made Miguel Cotto go down to 145. But then I just decide to NOT die on that hill because in the end, I really don’t think it would’ve made that much of a difference. Maybe Cotto wins a couple more rounds but drags himself to the finish line lumped slightly less. Who knows?

We’re just drawing hypotheticals.