Why it's illegal to say Usyk is better than Ali

[Pac=Duran]

You'll never get an unbiased answer our of Americans regarding this.

I think Usyk beats any version of Ali, whether or not he is "greater" i dont know.

Usyk is a different breed of heavy. A southpaw that can move like this with precision like that and the intelligence to adjust to anything you can throw at him gives anyone fits.

Still think Lennox woukd beat him. And Vitali vs Usyk would be a very very close fight too.

nobody thought Usyk would be able to go undefeated at heavy. No one. All this "its a weak era" stuff is BS because he came up from cruiser and was never expected to be the top dog at heavy

[JimRaynor]

You cant compare Usyk to Ali, totally different ball game. Ali spent his whole life at heavyweight defeating challenger after challenger. Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Floyd Patterson, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers. The 70's was such a rich era of heavyweight talent that its unmatched.

Uysk talent wise you can make comparisons to Ali, but the accomplishments at strictly heavyweight are too far apart.

Usyk is an ATG, but he's in his own category, a cruiserweight who leveled up and achieved glory, but with only 24 fights, Ali has almost triple the amount of fights. Can you make an argument that Usyk would beat Ali? Sure, but the resumes are just different. If you take Usyks body of work from his amateurs to Cruiserweight and then Heavyweight you'd have a better argument, but then it's an argument about P4P.

In any case there is no need to make Usyk out to be better than Ali, or Ali better than Usyk, they're different, different eras, different weight divisions, different pool of available contenders for each, but if we're talking only heavyweights then Ali has the far better resume, its not close.

[NihonJim]

You cant compare Usyk to Ali, totally different ball game. Ali spent his whole life at heavyweight defeating challenger after challenger. Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Floyd Patterson, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers. The 70's was such a rich era of heavyweight talent that its unmatched.

Uysk talent wise you can make comparisons to Ali, but the accomplishments at strictly heavyweight are too far apart.

Usyk is an ATG, but he's in his own category, a cruiserweight who leveled up and achieved glory, but with only 24 fights, Ali has almost triple the amount of fights. Can you make an argument that Usyk would beat Ali? Sure, but the resumes are just different. If you take Usyks body of work from his amateurs to Cruiserweight and then Heavyweight you'd have a better argument, but then it's an argument about P4P.

In any case there is no need to make Usyk out to be better than Ali, or Ali better than Usyk, they're different, different eras, different weight divisions, different pool of available contenders for each, but if we're talking only heavyweights then Ali has the far better resume, its not close.

Ali fans claim he's better because Usyk hasn't beaten enough bums.

[JimRaynor]

Ali fans claim he's better because Usyk hasn't beaten enough bums.

You again? Weren't you disrespecting Usyk right before the Dubois fight?

[Grandma Lover]

I think the issue is you pretending your reason for saying Usyk is better is boxing resume related when it is clearly related to other things not boxing.

Usyk is no doubt an ATG. IMO the best boxer in the world right now. Does his hwt resume match Ali’s? Imo no. That would be hard because Ali fought in an era with a lot of hwt talent.

Try making it just about boxing instead of your racial conspiracies.

Usyk never tested positive for steroids like Ali

[NihonJim]

You again? Weren't you disrespecting Usyk right before the Dubois fight?

Yes but he proved me wrong

Nobody does that to Dubois.

[JOITATS]

There has been enormous resentment by the Ali supporters about the speculation that Usyk is better than Ali. His record is better, his career is better and his multi dimensional style is more effective and successful and his longevity is greater than Ali's. Clearly Usyk is better than Ali however it's illegal to say it. The boxing establishment and media will not allow Ali to be canceled from the goat throne by an Eastern European. That was not in the script and that is not a narrative the boxing establishment wants to get behind. Even though it would help sell the sport today. We actually have a new goat hwt champion and he's an Eastern European from Ukraine. He is a better role model, has more class, humility and respect for all of his opponents. He is the best ambassador the sport of boxing could ever ask for. But he will be erased out as some kind of fluke one hit wonder who only beat a "weak era." The myth of Ali being the goat cannot be canceled for racial and political agendas. But Usyk really is the goat. He has never made a mistake in his career in the ring or out. He never lost, he never called anyone a gorilla or uncle tom, he never humiliated an opponent on live tv, he never mocked anyone, he never used foul language. Usyk is all class. He is the ultimate champion the sport has ever produced.

Because Usyk never fought anyone elite in his pro career.

The best guy he ever fought was Tyson Fury who by the way, he won by split dec.


Here's what you gotta do,
hold up Ali's resume next to Usyk's
and if that doesn't give you some laughs,
you need to get Usyk's balls out of your face.

[TMLT87]

I think Usyk would have given Ali a very tough fight, if not beaten him, but resume wise there is no discussion here, especially if we are talking strictly about HW.

[Haka]

There has been enormous resentment by the Ali supporters about the speculation that Usyk is better than Ali. His record is better, his career is better and his multi dimensional style is more effective and successful and his longevity is greater than Ali's. Clearly Usyk is better than Ali however it's illegal to say it. The boxing establishment and media will not allow Ali to be canceled from the goat throne by an Eastern European. That was not in the script and that is not a narrative the boxing establishment wants to get behind. Even though it would help sell the sport today. We actually have a new goat hwt champion and he's an Eastern European from Ukraine. He is a better role model, has more class, humility and respect for all of his opponents. He is the best ambassador the sport of boxing could ever ask for. But he will be erased out as some kind of fluke one hit wonder who only beat a "weak era." The myth of Ali being the goat cannot be canceled for racial and political agendas. But Usyk really is the goat. He has never made a mistake in his career in the ring or out. He never lost, he never called anyone a gorilla or uncle tom, he never humiliated an opponent on live tv, he never mocked anyone, he never used foul language. Usyk is all class. He is the ultimate champion the sport has ever produced.

Ali at 22 years old might have been and probably was way ahead of a young Usyk. In the case of Usyk credit must be given to the Soviet mechanical way of boxing that pays dividends later on by perfecting those movement patterns. Regardless the talent pool of today is much deeper which is shown in that the road to the top is much more difficult: i.e. to land a championship fight you simply cannot beat journeyman with 10+ losses in your most recent fights to get there, which was the case back then looking at records from Liston, Norton and more.

[The Big Dunn]

Can you prove there was more "talent" back then? No you can't. Frazier was a one dimensional small guy. Foreman was an arm puncher with little technical skills. Norton was a limited brawler. Ron Lyle was a brawler. Where is all this "talent" you speak of? Yes the perception is Ali's era was the greatest but the reality is probably the Ali era is the most popular and most celebrated. And every era post Ali is automatically deemed weaker which is a myth. All eras are tough. I think there is a racial and political factor involved in marginalizing Usyk. If Usyk was black from Brooklyn, I think the media would be much more favorable for him. And he would have a ton more. Movies and books would be written about Usyk.

I can make a rational argument.

Ali fought 7 HOF Hwt’s. I think Usyk will have only fought 2.

Boxing during that era occupied a much larger piece of the sports landscape, attracting more dynamic athletes. There were more boxing gyms. More quality trainers. There also wasn’t MMA draining potential talent.

Despite how you define them, their accomplishments are why they are HOFers. You are ignoring those tangible, objective measures to again fall back on an opinion based argument in line with your agenda.

See this is your only real reason for arguing this- race, nationality and politics.This allows you to use false speculation and conspiracies that no one can prove, including you. This allows you to dig in rather than admit it’s almost impossible to argue from a boxing/resume standpoint.

Dude you can’t be serious. No black American hwt has been elevated to Ali’s level by boxing historians/media. The media also isn’t negative about Usyk.

The closest was when fans made Tyson a worldwide phenomenon but he wasn’t elevated above Ali.

What do books and movies have to do with this? That is ridiculous. Usyk isn’t a world wide generational figure.

Usyk is very bland as you’ve mentioned in other posts. He isn’t dynamic or polarizing like Ali was. He also didn’t go around the world and gain the admiration and respect of fellow freedom fighters across the globe.

You mentioned being a role model. Usyk surely could be one. Ali was way more- he was the voice of a generation cutting across all cultural lines. You seem to hate him for this.

All that stated, this should be about resume and boxing.

Usyk- who I again am a huge fan of- who is 8-0 at hwt with 4 wins over surefire HOFers AJ and Fury is being compared to someone who is 56-5 at hwt, with 3 losses coming in his last 4 fights after he was 36.

your 1st hurdle. Ali has almost 8x as many Hwt fights. I get that Usyk is beating significantly bigger men in this era and gets credit for that by fans that say he is an ATG hwt.

The 2nd hurdle is Ali’s prime was taken away by the US government. You talk about politics, have you ever factored in what Ali’s record would be had he not lost that much of his prime?

The last hurdle- the era. Boxing isn’t as prominent as it used to be for the reasons I stated above.

It’s similar to hoops. George Mikan has 5 titles in an NBA era with no athleticism and very poor shooting.When He retired he was widely respected as a great basketball player. Now he is barely mentioned.

I just think from a boxing/resume perspective it’s hard to make a case for Usyk despite how great he is.