Why it's illegal to say Usyk is better than Ali

[Bennyleonard99]

I can make a rational argument.

Ali fought 7 HOF Hwt’s. I think Usyk will have only fought 2.

Boxing during that era occupied a much larger piece of the sports landscape, attracting more dynamic athletes. There were more boxing gyms. More quality trainers. There also wasn’t MMA draining potential talent.

Despite how you define them, their accomplishments are why they are HOFers. You are ignoring those tangible, objective measures to again fall back on an opinion based argument in line with your agenda.

See this is your only real reason for arguing this- race, nationality and politics.This allows you to use false speculation and conspiracies that no one can prove, including you. This allows you to dig in rather than admit it’s almost impossible to argue from a boxing/resume standpoint.

Dude you can’t be serious. No black American hwt has been elevated to Ali’s level by boxing historians/media. The media also isn’t negative about Usyk.

The closest was when fans made Tyson a worldwide phenomenon but he wasn’t elevated above Ali.

What do books and movies have to do with this? That is ridiculous. Usyk isn’t a world wide generational figure.

Usyk is very bland as you’ve mentioned in other posts. He isn’t dynamic or polarizing like Ali was. He also didn’t go around the world and gain the admiration and respect of fellow freedom fighters across the globe.

You mentioned being a role model. Usyk surely could be one. Ali was way more- he was the voice of a generation cutting across all cultural lines. You seem to hate him for this.

All that stated, this should be about resume and boxing.

Usyk- who I again am a huge fan of- who is 8-0 at hwt with 4 wins over surefire HOFers AJ and Fury is being compared to someone who is 56-5 at hwt, with 3 losses coming in his last 4 fights after he was 36.

your 1st hurdle. Ali has almost 8x as many Hwt fights. I get that Usyk is beating significantly bigger men in this era and gets credit for that by fans that say he is an ATG hwt.

The 2nd hurdle is Ali’s prime was taken away by the US government. You talk about politics, have you ever factored in what Ali’s record would be had he not lost that much of his prime?

The last hurdle- the era. Boxing isn’t as prominent as it used to be for the reasons I stated above.

It’s similar to hoops. George Mikan has 5 titles in an NBA era with no athleticism and very poor shooting.When He retired he was widely respected as a great basketball player. Now he is barely mentioned.

I just think from a boxing/resume perspective it’s hard to make a case for Usyk despite how great he is.

Both are great in their own ways. But perfection is a different level. Hard to measure skills and eras. I say Chisora whoops Frazier and Norton and Fury beats Foreman by unanimous decision. To my eye, Usyk is a little better. There's no way to downgrade perfection. If a baseball pitcher pitches 20 perfect games in a season he's the goat. Usyk has been perfect. Ali was electric and his charisma and personality can't be matched. He was bigger than the sport. He was bigger than sports period. He still is bigger than boxing too. He took it to another level. But in the end, the sport chewed him up and spit him out. Usyk has conquered the sport itself. He's done it quietly, fairly, with class and not an ounce of any controversy or politics. I know it's become almost law and instinct to refer to Muhammad Ali as the greatest. And he certainly was. But the game has passed him by and a new sheriff came to town.

Ali was the most dynamic electric personality sports has ever witnessed, and also an amazing talent though far from unbeatable. Usyk is PERFECTION in the most brutal violent demanding vicious sport on earth. Perfection is the ultimate final bar. Usyk has achieved the impossible.

[Bennyleonard99]

Ali at 22 years old might have been and probably was way ahead of a young Usyk. In the case of Usyk credit must be given to the Soviet mechanical way of boxing that pays dividends later on by perfecting those movement patterns. Regardless the talent pool of today is much deeper which is shown in that the road to the top is much more difficult: i.e. to land a championship fight you simply cannot beat journeyman with 10+ losses in your most recent fights to get there, which was the case back then looking at records from Liston, Norton and more.

Good points. It's not about who is winning the race at the quarter pole, what matter is the finish line. In the end Ali was chewed up and spit out by the sport. He was a broken fighter at the end. Usyk at 38 actually may be at his best and still improving which is astounding - one punch knockouts in his last two fights, though the pundits said he had no punch. The pundits don't understand Usyk just like mere mortals can't understand an immortal.

[Bennyleonard99]

Because Usyk never fought anyone elite in his pro career.

The best guy he ever fought was Tyson Fury who by the way, he won by split dec.


Here's what you gotta do,
hold up Ali's resume next to Usyk's
and if that doesn't give you some laughs,
you need to get Usyk's balls out of your face.

Whos resume would you rather have? Who's physical health would you rather have?

Ali was great but he paid the price for it. Usyk did it better, smarter and more intelligently with more discipline and sounder skills and tactics.

In the end, the sport beat Ali. In the end Usyk is 38 and still getting better and better. Usyk's career defies all logic and history. Perfection was supposed to be impossible but Usyk did the impossible.

[IceTrayDaGang]

I think the issue is you pretending your reason for saying Usyk is better is boxing resume related when it is clearly related to other things not boxing.

Usyk is no doubt an ATG. IMO the best boxer in the world right now. Does his hwt resume match Ali’s? Imo no. That would be hard because Ali fought in an era with a lot of hwt talent.

Try making it just about boxing instead of your racial conspiracies.

so you admit the HW division is weak right now, which is what i stated when comparing GGG's resume to Usyk! LOL.

[IceTrayDaGang]

I can make a rational argument.

Ali fought 7 HOF Hwt’s. I think Usyk will have only fought 2.

Boxing during that era occupied a much larger piece of the sports landscape, attracting more dynamic athletes. There were more boxing gyms. More quality trainers. There also wasn’t MMA draining potential talent.

Despite how you define them, their accomplishments are why they are HOFers. You are ignoring those tangible, objective measures to again fall back on an opinion based argument in line with your agenda.

See this is your only real reason for arguing this- race, nationality and politics.This allows you to use false speculation and conspiracies that no one can prove, including you. This allows you to dig in rather than admit it’s almost impossible to argue from a boxing/resume standpoint.

Dude you can’t be serious. No black American hwt has been elevated to Ali’s level by boxing historians/media. The media also isn’t negative about Usyk.

The closest was when fans made Tyson a worldwide phenomenon but he wasn’t elevated above Ali.

What do books and movies have to do with this? That is ridiculous. Usyk isn’t a world wide generational figure.

Usyk is very bland as you’ve mentioned in other posts. He isn’t dynamic or polarizing like Ali was. He also didn’t go around the world and gain the admiration and respect of fellow freedom fighters across the globe.

You mentioned being a role model. Usyk surely could be one. Ali was way more- he was the voice of a generation cutting across all cultural lines. You seem to hate him for this.

All that stated, this should be about resume and boxing.

Usyk- who I again am a huge fan of- who is 8-0 at hwt with 4 wins over surefire HOFers AJ and Fury is being compared to someone who is 56-5 at hwt, with 3 losses coming in his last 4 fights after he was 36.

your 1st hurdle. Ali has almost 8x as many Hwt fights. I get that Usyk is beating significantly bigger men in this era and gets credit for that by fans that say he is an ATG hwt.

The 2nd hurdle is Ali’s prime was taken away by the US government. You talk about politics, have you ever factored in what Ali’s record would be had he not lost that much of his prime?

The last hurdle- the era. Boxing isn’t as prominent as it used to be for the reasons I stated above.

It’s similar to hoops. George Mikan has 5 titles in an NBA era with no athleticism and very poor shooting.When He retired he was widely respected as a great basketball player. Now he is barely mentioned.

I just think from a boxing/resume perspective it’s hard to make a case for Usyk despite how great he is.

LOL... proving my point further.

[IceTrayDaGang]

I can make a rational argument.

Ali fought 7 HOF Hwt’s. I think Usyk will have only fought 2.

Boxing during that era occupied a much larger piece of the sports landscape, attracting more dynamic athletes. There were more boxing gyms. More quality trainers. There also wasn’t MMA draining potential talent.

Despite how you define them, their accomplishments are why they are HOFers. You are ignoring those tangible, objective measures to again fall back on an opinion based argument in line with your agenda.

See this is your only real reason for arguing this- race, nationality and politics.This allows you to use false speculation and conspiracies that no one can prove, including you. This allows you to dig in rather than admit it’s almost impossible to argue from a boxing/resume standpoint.

Dude you can’t be serious. No black American hwt has been elevated to Ali’s level by boxing historians/media. The media also isn’t negative about Usyk.

The closest was when fans made Tyson a worldwide phenomenon but he wasn’t elevated above Ali.

What do books and movies have to do with this? That is ridiculous. Usyk isn’t a world wide generational figure.

Usyk is very bland as you’ve mentioned in other posts. He isn’t dynamic or polarizing like Ali was. He also didn’t go around the world and gain the admiration and respect of fellow freedom fighters across the globe.

You mentioned being a role model. Usyk surely could be one. Ali was way more- he was the voice of a generation cutting across all cultural lines. You seem to hate him for this.

All that stated, this should be about resume and boxing.

Usyk- who I again am a huge fan of- who is 8-0 at hwt with 4 wins over surefire HOFers AJ and Fury is being compared to someone who is 56-5 at hwt, with 3 losses coming in his last 4 fights after he was 36.

your 1st hurdle. Ali has almost 8x as many Hwt fights. I get that Usyk is beating significantly bigger men in this era and gets credit for that by fans that say he is an ATG hwt.

The 2nd hurdle is Ali’s prime was taken away by the US government. You talk about politics, have you ever factored in what Ali’s record would be had he not lost that much of his prime?

The last hurdle- the era. Boxing isn’t as prominent as it used to be for the reasons I stated above.

It’s similar to hoops. George Mikan has 5 titles in an NBA era with no athleticism and very poor shooting.When He retired he was widely respected as a great basketball player. Now he is barely mentioned.

I just think from a boxing/resume perspective it’s hard to make a case for Usyk despite how great he is.

why it gotta be black american, why not just black? see how defensive you get when it's a black american... but if it was AJ or dubois... LOL..

[The Big Dunn]

Both are great in their own ways. But perfection is a different level. Hard to measure skills and eras. I say Chisora whoops Frazier and Norton and Fury beats Foreman by unanimous decision. To my eye, Usyk is a little better. There's no way to downgrade perfection. If a baseball pitcher pitches 20 perfect games in a season he's the goat. Usyk has been perfect. Ali was electric and his charisma and personality can't be matched. He was bigger than the sport. He was bigger than sports period. He still is bigger than boxing too. He took it to another level. But in the end, the sport chewed him up and spit him out. Usyk has conquered the sport itself. He's done it quietly, fairly, with class and not an ounce of any controversy or politics. I know it's become almost law and instinct to refer to Muhammad Ali as the greatest. And he certainly was. But the game has passed him by and a new sheriff came to town.

Ali was the most dynamic electric personality sports has ever witnessed, and also an amazing talent though far from unbeatable. Usyk is PERFECTION in the most brutal violent demanding vicious sport on earth. Perfection is the ultimate final bar. Usyk has achieved the impossible.

Ok. The flaw with your argument is Ali was perfect at HWT longer than Usyk .

Ali was 31-0 at hwt with 11 title defenses compared to Usyk being 8-0 with 5 title defenses.

Usyk isn’t American so he likely wouldn’t be able to express himself freely like Ali did. That isn’t a negative for Ali.

You knew Ali’s values and principles because he answered questions directly. Usyk isn’t asked these because as we both said he isn’t on Ali’s level out of the ring.

The perfection argument only makes Ali’s case stronger. Usyk is 25-0. Ali was 31-0. Usyk hasn’t been perfect through as many fights as Ali was. They both have 11 world title defenses.

How has Usyk achieved the impossible when he hasn’t reached the perfection level of Ali, who went perfect longer?

[The Big Dunn]

why it gotta be black american, why not just black? see how defensive you get when it's a black american... but if it was AJ or dubois... LOL..

Proving what point? I don’t think Dubois or Chisora will be HOFers. Has nothing to do with their nationality or race. Just their in ring accomplishments.

Huh? If you read the post I am responding to, his point was if Usyk was black American hwt born in Brooklyn, he’d be elevated.

That is why I answered that way. You are wrong to post I am getting defensive.

Please dude learn how to read and comprehend English.

You're desperate to try and make me like you and Madison. You keep failing. You guys hate black people. Doesn’t mean I hate white people.

Go away. You don’t know enough about Ali or Usyk to contribute. Don’t ruin the discussion I am having.
This will be my last post to you in this thread.

[IceTrayDaGang]

see how fast Dunn turn on Usyk, when being compared to african americans.

[IceTrayDaGang]

Huh? If you read the post I am responding to, his point was if Usyk was black American hwt born in Brooklyn, he’d be elevated.

That is why I answered that way. You are wrong to post I am getting defensive.

Please dude learn how to read and comprehend English.

You're desperate to try and make me like you and Madison. You keep failing. You guys hate black people. Doesn’t mean I hate white people.

Go away. You don’t know enough about Ali or Usyk to contribute. Don’t ruin the discussion I am having.
This will be my last post to you in this thread.

going by your own logic, just because i am not a fan of certain black boxers, doesnt mean i hate black people. for one, i am a big fun of MJ, Kobe, Curry.

but look how fast you turn on Usyk when he's being compared to the greats of passed african american boxers... Uysk is only a GOAT to you when being compared to other europeans LOL!!!!!