Rank these hype jobs

[kafkod]

Oh brother... Kafkod you really should stay away from the st upid pills. Let me ask you this? What is more important a hammer or a screw driver? The lineal is not "important" the same way a belt is important... You cannot substitute one for the other. The lineal is a way for the fans to declare the champion. That is what it is for. It can be used to pressure the authorities, establish a claim, etc. That does not make it the same as a belt. It is the will of the people.

Sometimes simplicity is a virtue: The lineal is simple, elegant and useful when politics tries to pass a pig with lipstick as a champ.

"What is more important a hammer or a screw driver? The lineal is not "important" the same way a belt is important... You cannot substitute one for the other."

You are committing a type of logical fallacy known as a category error. Title belts exist, both physically and legally, in that they are physical symbols of a certain type of legally held status. "The lineal" has no existence, either physically or legally. It is an expression of subjective opinion, nothing more. That's why you could, theoretically, be sued for saying that Daniel Dubois is not the IBF world champion, but you could not be sued for saying that Usyk is not the lineal champion.

"The lineal is a way for the fans to declare the champion."

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Give me an example of when it happened.

"That is what it is for. It can be used to pressure the authorities, establish a claim, etc. That does not make it the same as a belt. It is the will of the people."

What authorities and what people are you talking about there?

"The lineal is simple, elegant and useful when politics tries to pass a pig with lipstick as a champ"

If you had said that "the lineal" does not exist but comes in useful when promoters try to pass off meaningless tune-up like Tyson Fury vs Francesco Pianeta, Sefer Seferi, and Tom Schwarz as world title fights, then I would agree with you.

[kafkod]

Lol. Casual fans buy PPVs, so we can't really care if they follow the sport's history, right?

Usyk became champion when he beat Fury, who beat Wladamir Klitschko, in a line....back to a very long time ago.
No tin horn Latin American "Sanctioning body" gets to arbitrarily pick who the heavyweight champion is.
they never have.
Oleksandr Usyk is just one more link in the chain.

Now you know.

Who did Wladimir Klitschko beat to become lineal champion?

How did Tyson Fury remain lineal champ after giving up his belts, handing in his boxing licence, and officially retiring?

Why did Usyk, when he was asked if the lineal title was important to him, say that he didn't know what the lineal title was?

[billeau2]

"What is more important a hammer or a screw driver? The lineal is not "important" the same way a belt is important... You cannot substitute one for the other."

You are committing a type of logical fallacy known as a category error. Title belts exist, both physically and legally, in that they are physical symbols of a certain type of legally held status. "The lineal" has no existence, either physically or legally. It is an expression of subjective opinion, nothing more. That's why you could, theoretically, be sued for saying that Daniel Dubois is not the IBF world champion, but you could not be sued for saying that Usyk is not the lineal champion.

"The lineal is a way for the fans to declare the champion."

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Give me an example of when it happened.

"That is what it is for. It can be used to pressure the authorities, establish a claim, etc. That does not make it the same as a belt. It is the will of the people."

What authorities and what people are you talking about there?

"The lineal is simple, elegant and useful when politics tries to pass a pig with lipstick as a champ"

If you had said that "the lineal" does not exist but comes in useful when promoters try to pass off meaningless tune-up like Tyson Fury vs Francesco Pianeta, Sefer Seferi, and Tom Schwarz as world title fights, then I would agree with you.

Logical fallicy? YES!!! That bis exactly the point! Do you see WHY I committed such a fallicy? To show that comparing things has to have a basis in sets of similar attributes, to work for the comparison. You do not compare two primary tools on the basis of importance, anymore than you compare the lineal, to the establishment of titles produced through some middleman independent agency. They are essentially different forms of authority.

Here is another example: Your mother scolds you for driving a car drunk, versus a cop stops you for drunk driving... Your mother and the cop have a very different form of authority over you (You meaning anyone). You cannot compare them because they operate on a different basis entirely. Assuming a normal family here, one does not want to hurt their mother, they feel a specific obligation to her for raising them, etc... The cop operates through threat. The threat of punishment, in the states the threat of violence is pretty real as well lol.... See the point here?

You mistake the lineal and then say it does not exist. It always exists! It exists in every school yard in every city! "Hey my big brother can kick your duff!" "Oh yeah? How come?" "He beat of that kid that beat you up!" The mechanism is part of our nature. And fans will always apply the same to fighters.

The fans declare the champion by saying "this fighter is the best because he beat the best" It is circular logic at its finest, but it correlates perfectly to reality. If Usyk beats the best he becomes the lineal.... Now sure, there are hiccups in the processing, maybe another guy beat the former best and is still active, but these always resolve, what harm is it to have a conflict where two guys could be the lineal? It always eventually comes down to the guy who is the champ because he beat the best guy. That is as real as it gets!

All alphabet soup belts are under pressure to not stray too wide from a champion who defeats a decent opponent because of the lineal. Nobody will take them seriously otherwise. Which we see every day with these alphabet soup chumps that are not even decent opponents for the better fighters.

[QueensburyRules]

- - All but Berto were protected fighters, but Berto started losing as soon as he stepped up.

[billeau2]

Who did Wladimir Klitschko beat to become lineal champion?

How did Tyson Fury remain lineal champ after giving up his belts, handing in his boxing licence, and officially retiring?

Why did Usyk, when he was asked if the lineal title was important to him, say that he didn't know what the lineal title was?

Your asking the wrong questions... The question should be is Usyk the best heavyweight? Is he the best based on the authority of some agency, like a state? a sanctioning body, etc? Or is he the best because he beat the best fighter out there as an opponent?

It does not matter what Usyk kinows because I will bet you a million diollars that if you asked why Usyk is the champ and asked him whether it was:

1. Because the sanctioning bodies consider him a suitable candidate to represent their organization(s)

2. He beat the best active fighter out there in a series of matches...

wanna bet he would stick with number 2?

kafkod, I like you, you seem ready to question things but in the spirit of not being silly (me) and wanting to be constructive(because most people do not understand the lineal and maybe our dialogue can help?) you do not understand the lineal. At the highest level of human nature we find Anarchy... No need for any outside force, like a state for example, to tell people how to behave, because people know better and act on this knowledge. So, in an anarchist society a cop pulls up and says "Bill, please slow down, I really do not want you to hurt yourself!" I slow down because I know better, not because of the threat of punishment from the state....

The Lineal comes from the same place... It is not codified in some organization. It is not subject to an elaborate contruction of laws and consequences... It is the collective will of people to see, and crown the king of the hill. It describes how one becomes the King of the Hill and that is all that is needed to fans. People just try to complicate the lineal by comparing it to disfunctional political en****** that have their own interests and not the intersts of the fans.

[Willow The Wisp]

"What is more important a hammer or a screw driver? The lineal is not "important" the same way a belt is important... You cannot substitute one for the other."

You are committing a type of logical fallacy known as a category error. Title belts exist, both physically and legally, in that they are physical symbols of a certain type of legally held status. "The lineal" has no existence, either physically or legally. It is an expression of subjective opinion, nothing more. That's why you could, theoretically, be sued for saying that Daniel Dubois is not the IBF world champion, but you could not be sued for saying that Usyk is not the lineal champion.

"The lineal is a way for the fans to declare the champion."

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. Give me an example of when it happened.

"That is what it is for. It can be used to pressure the authorities, establish a claim, etc. That does not make it the same as a belt. It is the will of the people."

What authorities and what people are you talking about there?

"The lineal is simple, elegant and useful when politics tries to pass a pig with lipstick as a champ"

If you had said that "the lineal" does not exist but comes in useful when promoters try to pass off meaningless tune-up like Tyson Fury vs Francesco Pianeta, Sefer Seferi, and Tom Schwarz as world title fights, then I would agree with you.

Silly and absurd reasoning.