Ww have only 3 legit contenders at hw now

[famicommander]

While I agree that Usyk is THE champion, I wouldn't say that twice undisputed at heavyweight is worth nothing.

To become Undisputed you need to navigate so many roadblocks in the sport. The things Usyk had to do to gather belts are exactly what makes him a great champion.

I didn't say it was worth nothing. World titles are nice accomplishments and being undisputed is a better accomplishment. Worthy of celebration.

But it doesn't make you the champion. If Usyk vacated all the belts tomorrow but continued fighting, he'd still be the champion and even if one person won all the straps, they wouldn't have a claim while Usyk was still active.

The idea that Dubois, who got knocked out on a jab by Usyk, became champion while Usyk was still undefeated by beating a guy that Usyk beat not once, but twice, is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in my life. I don't care one tiny bit what the sanctioning bodies say. Dubois is a world titlist but he's not a champion.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

No. Once again, the sanctioning bodies don't crown champions. They have zero to do with the process. What they do is decide who has followed their own bureaucratic process and award them with a trinket. World titles are not world championships. You could win the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts and still not be the champion.

They do. So you think your opinion holds more weight than the IBF?

I highly doubt in 100 years time someone will review the history books and say Daniel Dubois was not a legitimate Heavyweight champion because famicommander on the boxingscene forums said so.

As I keep having to repeat, I don’t disagree with your sentiments but it is what it is.

[Willow The Wisp]

No top wins then.

This depends on where your "top" starts.

[Toffee]

I didn't say it was worth nothing. World titles are nice accomplishments and being undisputed is a better accomplishment. Worthy of celebration.

But it doesn't make you the champion. If Usyk vacated all the belts tomorrow but continued fighting, he'd still be the champion and even if one person won all the straps, they wouldn't have a claim while Usyk was still active.

The idea that Dubois, who got knocked out on a jab by Usyk, became champion while Usyk was still undefeated by beating a guy that Usyk beat not once, but twice, is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in my life. I don't care one tiny bit what the sanctioning bodies say. Dubois is a world titlist but he's not a champion.

You said, and I quote...

You could win the WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, and IBO belts and still not be the champion.

I'm arguing that if anyone can gather all of those belts, then I'm going to call them champ.

[famicommander]

You said, and I quote...



I'm arguing that if anyone can gather all of those belts, then I'm going to call them champ.

What if Benavidez were to beat Eifert for an interim IBF strap and then Smith for the interim WBO strap? Then he'd have all four secondary belts.

Would he instantly become champion over Bivol if, say, Bivol got stripped of all his titles for pursuing a 4th Beterbiev fight if the trilogy ended in a draw? Benavidez would have all the alphabet soup belts but Bivol would still be the undefeated lineal/TBRB/Ring champion of the world.

It's an unlikely scenario, but it proves my point. In that scenario the winner of a fourth Bivol-Beterbiev fight is the legitimate champion of the world. You could make up 500 belts and give them to anybody you want but that fight would be the world championship no matter what.

[Tecate]

Andy Ruiz would smash all three. He drew his last fight, he may be done but he is a serious contender in a big fight. Have you even scored the second Joshua fight properly? Ruiz won quite clearly.

[Toffee]

What if Benavidez were to beat Eifert for an interim IBF strap and then Smith for the interim WBO strap? Then he'd have all four secondary belts.

Would he instantly become champion over Bivol if, say, Bivol got stripped of all his titles for pursuing a 4th Beterbiev fight if the trilogy ended in a draw? Benavidez would have all the alphabet soup belts but Bivol would still be the undefeated lineal/TBRB/Ring champion of the world.

It's an unlikely scenario, but it proves my point. In that scenario the winner of a fourth Bivol-Beterbiev fight is the legitimate champion of the world. You could make up 500 belts and give them to anybody you want but that fight would be the world championship no matter what.

That's not an unlikely scenario, it's impossible.

The Undisputed champ is not going to be stripped by all 4 orgs. No-one is winning all 4 secondary straps and then being elevated 4 times by email. Not really worth discussing.

[famicommander]

That's not an unlikely scenario, it's impossible.

The Undisputed champ is not going to be stripped by all 4 orgs. No-one is winning all 4 secondary straps and then being elevated 4 times by email. Not really worth discussing.

What if Usyk vacated all the belts but continued to fight on? He'd still be the champion and even if Dubois collected all 4 belts his claim would still be a joke.

[Willow The Wisp]

Interesting debate. The meaning of sanctioning body belts.

It's mostly semantics being argued here, but when Ali met Frazier in 71', or when Spinks met Tyson, or when Foreman lost the title to Briggs; all kinds of activities among the contenders surrounded them; but at Heavyweight at least, the lineal title is everything and the sanctioning body belts; even when all collected up, are nothing; because documented history says so.

Usyk is the lineal champion because he won it in the ring.
Dubois is simply a contender who holds a belt. But if they rematch, it will be a re-unification of the belts....until the next stripping.

[Toffee]

What if Usyk vacated all the belts but continued to fight on? He'd still be the champion and even if Dubois collected all 4 belts his claim would still be a joke.

If Usyk's belts went three ways (presumably due to avoiding challengers) and Dubois went and beat every one of the new holders, one after the other, in addition to dealing with mandatories... I think I'd accept his status as a champion boxer.

Lineal Champion, on the other hand, is a different story.

Let's continue your example. Having dropped the three belts, Usyk goes on a tour of fighting Pianeta, Seferi and Schwartz while Dubois is cleaning out the rest of the top 5.

Usyk would be lineal, for what that is worth, but would you call him the champion in that scenario?