Age versus reality ..

[billeau2]

People were so sure Chris arreola was shot... Does anybody even recognize that in his fight with Andy Ruiz they combined for almost a record amount of Punches thrown?

Lewis Ortiz people always talk about his age. What do they watch his performance? Meanwhile Wilder obviously shot to pieces... And people want to make the argument that his fight against Parker was not a product of that condition.

This is the problem with all this subjective mishmash when it comes to evaluating fighters. People make assumptions. People look at rankings and they look at wins without understanding the role that losses and circumstances play when evaluating a fighter.

Thoughts?

[crimsonfalcon07]

In before certain posters start talking about how old Usyk and Beterbiev are and how they simply must be on drugs, even though neither has ever tested positive for anything, both have insane work ethics, and of course, let's disregard completely modern training and recovery methods that weren't available.

Gotta say though, I wasn't impressed with either guy in the Ruiz v Arreola fight. Both looked terrible. They might have thrown a lot of punches, but the quality of those punches was not up to their usual standards IMO.

[daggum]

you literally just said joyce was exposed when he lost yet when wilder or ortiz lose they are clearly shot but not exposed? hello??? oh joyce was clearly shot when he lost what a shame. oh well at least in his prime he beat jennings, parker, and dubois. if ortiz was shot like you claim he only managed to beat jennings in his prime. darn what a shame he became shot the exact moment he stepped up in competition. same with wilder. those are crazy coincidences

[Shrap]

Luis Ortiz was never great, never beat anyone great and never held a world title. He was a false boogeyman created by the delusional Wilder fans to try and give him one name on his resume with credibility. Time will forget him soon enough.

[NihonJim]

Age is a difficult one because it catches up to people at different stages.

Lifestyle, genetics, damage taken in the ring all play a massive part in it.

Usyk and Bertebiev are weird though because they are like getting close to late career Bernard Hopkins age and are still winning fights through workrate and physicality, it's not like they are using veteran nous to win fights just by knowing more.

I do wonder how long they can go on, like is Usyk going to be in his 40s and having better stamina than and outworking a 20 year old Moses Itauma in a couple of years? Cos that ain't how biology is supposed to work.

Not accusing them of anything but the longevity is astonishing.

[billeau2]

you literally just said joyce was exposed when he lost yet when wilder or ortiz lose they are clearly shot but not exposed? hello??? oh joyce was clearly shot when he lost what a shame. oh well at least in his prime he beat jennings, parker, and dubois. if ortiz was shot like you claim he only managed to beat jennings in his prime. darn what a shame he became shot the exact moment he stepped up in competition. same with wilder. those are crazy coincidences

No I give explicit reasons I didn't just say anybody was exposed without talking about what happened there is a difference. I also never said ortez was shot I said after the Wilder fights they took their toll. Again it's empirical you can see it. I also never said he was in his prime against Jennings I said his prime was probably prior to when he became a professional. You're a fool you just keep misquoting and acting as though things have been stated with no reasons.

Watching Wilder against Zhang unable to throw a punch what would you call it idiot?

And how did Joyce suddenly start losing all his fights? Happenstance? I never even said Joyce was shot I said he was figured out. I also said in any decent division he would have been figured out a long time ago. Stop misquoting. I can't help it if you're a casual who looks at subjective rankings instead of carefully looking at fights and using critical thinking.

[billeau2]

Luis Ortiz was never great, never beat anyone great and never held a world title. He was a false boogeyman created by the delusional Wilder fans to try and give him one name on his resume with credibility. Time will forget him soon enough.

No... The first three things you said are true. I don't know why that follows that make him less than a excellent fighter in a week division.

Wilder was limited but an incredible puncher. You either understand that or you don't.

[kafkod]

People were so sure Chris arreola was shot... Does anybody even recognize that in his fight with Andy Ruiz they combined for almost a record amount of Punches thrown?

Lewis Ortiz people always talk about his age. What do they watch his performance? Meanwhile Wilder obviously shot to pieces... And people want to make the argument that his fight against Parker was not a product of that condition.

This is the problem with all this subjective mishmash when it comes to evaluating fighters. People make assumptions. People look at rankings and they look at wins without understanding the role that losses and circumstances play when evaluating a fighter.

Thoughts?

Why was Wilder obviously shot to pieces? He lost to Parker and Zhang, who were better than anybody he had ever beaten. I'm pretty sure they would both have beaten any version of Wilder.

[kafkod]

No... The first three things you said are true. I don't know why that follows that make him less than a excellent fighter in a week division.

Wilder was limited but an incredible puncher. You either understand that or you don't.

Wilder was an incredible puncher against low level opponents and Tyson Fury, who, for all his undoubted talent and ability, was decked multiple times by guys who were definitely not incredible punchers. When Deontay stepped up his level of opposition, suddenly, his power was not so incredible any more. What a coincidence!

[Roadblock]

I think age is its own reality you cant throw a blanket over it or compare individuals, especially over different eras as aging is such a personal process , Im 70 and have the movement and health of a 50 yr old, Im active every day as I run a kennel of 30 dogs I still go to the gym twice a week and spar, all day every day Im walking up and down this hill I live on, physically handling very strong large dogs daily, my brother is 14 yrs younger than me, overweight and sits around smoking dope all day he is a bag and can't walk to the letterbox more than once, two very different types with the same genetic makeup.

Fighters that look after their bodies and don't use it as filter can have longevity, especially today when science knows so much about nutrition and conditioning, it wasn't all that long ago when the older generation of fighters never even had a refrigerator and knew very little about conditioning other than a grind yourself to death mentality, today rest and recuperation is as important as the workload probably even more so.

A career fighter also carries a lot of acquired fitness. I've seen long-retired pros jump in and do 10 rounds sparing and they haven't trained for mths or years in some cases, fitness that is locked into the muscle and system memory from years and years of hard training.