Who is better? Joe Joyce or Luis Ortiz

[Sid-Knee]

ortiz actually left matchroom before joshua-klitschko even happened which obviously makes the fight a lot harder to make. 100 percent his fault.

Mar 29, 2017 Luis Ortiz seems to have ended his relationship with Matchroom


then he failed a drug test and had his mandatory status stripped before joshua even had another fight. 100 percent his fault.

Sep 29, 2017 — Luis Ortiz has failed a drugs test

Oct 20, 2017 Luis Ortiz Suspended By WBA, No Longer Mandatory To Joshua


not sure why people just make things up as if ortiz didnt completely self sabotage himself

Oh i thought he left just after the Klitschko fight when he found out the IBF mandatory was first.

The crazy fans still claimed AJ ducked Ortiz after the test fail. They said he should have just fought him anyway and that he was using it as an excuse. It was all over here at the time.

[Mammoth]

Better all around boxer ; Ortiz
Better resume : Joyce

Really odd he tried to make how good someone is solely about resume.

[MulaKO]

Really odd he tried to make how good someone is solely about resume.

Daggum will come for you

[billeau2]

What the f3ck is all this waffle? All this and you still couldn't justify what you said. You claim you did, but you factually didn't. Show me otherwise? Don't try and run away and use deflection tactics like you're bored with all this now. No, you're just in a tight spot where you can't justify any of your nonsense so you want out.

"Yes Joyce was exposed... When was the last time he beat a decent fighter?"

This is what you wrote. Justify it without hypocrisy or contradiction. Then we'll get to all the other points. But it's clear you can't even get over the first step.

I justified what I said just fine gimp... Factually? Do you understand that we are essentially dealing with opinions? Of course I laid out the facts I consider relevant to those opinions. You come on here with all kinds of tangents, inane accusations and expect to e taken seriously... You are not. Not by me... I am getting bored with this lol. You add nothing that I can see , with a slight amusement factor which I do appreciate.

I will briefly comment on the last sentence and direct you to what I posted to kafkod. Joyce failed to make minor adjustments... He could not get his offense working and made the same amateur defensive mistakes to such an extent that it became obvious he was limited. He did this against Zhang. Now those happen to be facts. HOW one interprets them would be opinion. Because I like you I will repeat myself: When a fighter cannot make minor adjustments this is a sign they are not particularly well trained, or at least are unable to compete at a certain point.

Wilder showed something different. He had all the signs of a fighter who was shot against a common opponent (Zhang). Again, draw your own conclusions but the actions speak for themselves. Despite what Eddie hearns tells ya!

[billeau2]

Oh i thought he left just after the Klitschko fight when he found out the IBF mandatory was first.

The crazy fans still claimed AJ ducked Ortiz after the test fail. They said he should have just fought him anyway and that he was using it as an excuse. It was all over here at the time.

Why would this even matter? Who ducked who... Fighters that people called "scared" how silly... Did AJ fight Ortiz? That is all that matters.

[billeau2]

Yeah, Eddie manufactured Ortiz saying he was ready for AJ on video while he was preparing for Miller. Eddie manufactured Ortiz saying if Miller pulls out for whatever reason, he'll step in. That he's been training for some time. Eddie Manufactured offering a multi million dollar contract only for them to say they were worth 10 Mill. All this on the record with all the evidence there for anyone to see. Then when Ruiz got the gig, Ortiz's team putting it out there that they got it badly wrong. Well duh. Of course they did. They were paid only 500,000 for the Wilder fight. But apparently, after getting knocked out, your money skyrockets even though you don't sell tickets or generate any money.

Yeah, Eddie manufactured all these facts. Haha.

The only one manufacturing anything here is you with all your bullshlt and lunacy. You can't even justify a simple comment you wrote. I asked you to, but you came out with all manner of nonsense to deflect. Normal people get straight to answering the question. Not deflecting. That tells us everything about you and your non stop nonsense.

You miss my point Gimp... Slow your brain down and use your ears before posting... I do not claim to know anything about fight negotiations... How could I? How could you? Stop listening to the crap Fast Eddie sprouts, use your brains. These negotiations have a lot of aspects that we will never be privy to. It is a characteristic of Joshuastans to be fans of promoters... what Ibad used to call "superfans" lol. You want to be taken seriously? Stop parroting a media narrative you could not possibly be privy to.

You do not know the conditions are for any monies offered... Fact. Contracts have conditions. They often seem to not violate "arm's length" provisions (look it up) but when you look into the contract they have conditions that are unreasonable. Grow up and stop swallowing Eddies manjuice...

[billeau2]

ortiz actually left matchroom before joshua-klitschko even happened which obviously makes the fight a lot harder to make. 100 percent his fault.

Mar 29, 2017 Luis Ortiz seems to have ended his relationship with Matchroom


then he failed a drug test and had his mandatory status stripped before joshua even had another fight. 100 percent his fault.

Sep 29, 2017 — Luis Ortiz has failed a drugs test

Oct 20, 2017 Luis Ortiz Suspended By WBA, No Longer Mandatory To Joshua


not sure why people just make things up as if ortiz didnt completely self sabotage himself

How would you know "fault" regarding what Ortiz did? Ortiz hired lawyers that are more hairbrained than you? Almost impossible to do... Failing a drug test is a different issue entirely. But as usual you mix up nonsense with facts.

[The D3vil]

Show me these performances where Ortiz was awkward? I want to see these supposed awkward skills. A bum who couldn't hit a house right in front of him doesn't justify Ortiz being an awkward southpaw. It just means his opponent is clearly lacking.

The IBF and WBA released statements clearly explaining that the IBF mandatory was first in line. The WBA's one was to confirm that to be the case and that Ortiz would be next after Takam. But Ortiz ran to Wilder which was a much easier fight and for a lot less. Ortiz was even signed to Matchroom so there were no promotional obstacles in the way.

At which point could Wlad face Ortiz? Give me a time and date. Don't just make it up and hope everyone has forgotten about it all. When could Fury face Ortiz too?

Ortiz said he was ready for AJ at that time. This was even before Miller got the chop. Ortiz said he'd been in camp and was in great shape. So they offered him the gig only for the usual ducking to take place with that ridiculous price tag they asked for.

Ortiz fought Christian Hammer in March of 2019.

The Joshua fight was for June 1, 2019

Miller tests dirty in April of 2019.

That would've given a 40 year old man less than 2 months to get ready for a HW title fight.

There's a reason that's when they called him.

Any of those guys could've fought him between 2014-2018.

[kafkod]

Ortiz fought Christian Hammer in March of 2019.

The Joshua fight was for June 1, 2019

Miller tests dirty in April of 2019.

That would've given a 40 year old man less than 2 months to get ready for a HW title fight.

There's a reason that's when they called him.

Any of those guys could've fought him between 2014-2018.

Yes, the reason being that Miller popped dirty and Ortiz went on social media saying that he was ready and willing to take his place.

He could have fought AJ a year earlier, as the WBA mandatory challenger, if he'd stayed with Matchroom and waited for AJ to fulfill his IBF mandatory obligation. Ortiz, as WBA mando, was next in line. But instead of waiting, he signed to fight Wilder, popped dirty for PEDs - for the second time in his career - and lost his WBA mando position.

[daggum]

Ortiz fought Christian Hammer in March of 2019.

The Joshua fight was for June 1, 2019

Miller tests dirty in April of 2019.

That would've given a 40 year old man less than 2 months to get ready for a HW title fight.

There's a reason that's when they called him.

Any of those guys could've fought him between 2014-2018.

Why are you infantalizing ortiz? Ortiz had about 6 weeks to prepare and camps are usually 6 to 8 weeks and it's not like he needed time to get in shape since he's never in shape and doesn't have to make weight. There's a reason they called him...yeah to fight him.

blame ortiz for ducking the fight. Making excuses for him is pathetic. Also he had about 44 days if you look at the news articles if he accepted when offered, he had 50 when tbe first wilder fight was confirmed. Not a big difference at all???