Comments Thread For: Stephen Espinoza: Jaron Ennis not at fault for Vergil Ortiz Jnr fallout

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

So what was Ennis' guarantee when he was with Showtime? Why did he choose to stay dormant for most of his contract if he's guaranteed X amount regardless of who he fights? Not every deal is the same.

I don't know what his guarantee was with Showtime or if he had a guarantee with Showtime. I simply stated that Boots wasn't responsible for the fight with Norman Jr not materializing. You felt that Norman Jr should receive 50/50. I disagreed and explained why Norman Jr should't get paid the same. I also stated that Boots isn't in control of what Norman Jr is offered, that's on Eddie and stated that Boots can only control what he is guaranteed under contract with Eddie.

You claimed that fighters can't have guarantees to which I disagreed and provided proof that marquee fighters do sign contracts that guarantee them a certain amount. I used Shakur and Canelo as examples, and I'm pretty sure Boots has a contract with Eddie that guarantees him a certain amount. I'm pretty certain that the reason Eddie was only offering Norman Jr $1.7 million was because that amount plus Boots' guarantee was the math that added up so Eddie wouldn't take a hit on the fight...

[Bullrider]

I don't know what his guarantee was with Showtime or if he had a guarantee with Showtime. I simply stated that Boots wasn't responsible for the fight with Norman Jr not materializing. You felt that Norman Jr should receive 50/50. I disagreed and explained why Norman Jr should't get paid the same. I also stated that Boots isn't in control of what Norman Jr is offered, that's on Eddie and stated that Boots can only control what he is guaranteed under contract with Eddie.

You claimed that fighters can't have guarantees to which I disagreed and provided proof that marquee fighters do sign contracts that guarantee them a certain amount. I used Shakur and Canelo as examples, and I'm pretty sure Boots has a contract with Eddie that guarantees him a certain amount. I'm pretty certain that the reason Eddie was only offering Norman Jr $1.7 million was because that amount plus Boots' guarantee was the math that added up so Eddie wouldn't take a hit on the fight...

You keep saying Ennis has no control over his own career, which includes making adjustments. Why? Is he a child? ESPN/TR, for example, offered a budget of X amount for the Teo vs Loma fight. That's what they thought was the size of the fight and all they can afford. Promoters at first decides the split percentages. Lopez wanted more, but Loma lowered his and made adjustments so the fight can happen. It did. Loma did the same in the Rigo fight. And the Ukrainian fighter is not even someone who had a hard time securing other fights.

[MulaKO]

I don't know what his guarantee was with Showtime or if he had a guarantee with Showtime. I simply stated that Boots wasn't responsible for the fight with Norman Jr not materializing. You felt that Norman Jr should receive 50/50. I disagreed and explained why Norman Jr should't get paid the same. I also stated that Boots isn't in control of what Norman Jr is offered, that's on Eddie and stated that Boots can only control what he is guaranteed under contract with Eddie.

You claimed that fighters can't have guarantees to which I disagreed and provided proof that marquee fighters do sign contracts that guarantee them a certain amount. I used Shakur and Canelo as examples, and I'm pretty sure Boots has a contract with Eddie that guarantees him a certain amount. I'm pretty certain that the reason Eddie was only offering Norman Jr $1.7 million was because that amount plus Boots' guarantee was the math that added up so Eddie wouldn't take a hit on the fight...

I read that to get the Norman fight it was another 500 000
That's not big money for these guys

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

You keep saying Ennis has no control over his own career, which includes making adjustments. Why? Is he a child? ESPN/TR, for example, offered a budget of X amount for the Teo vs Loma fight. That's what they thought was the size of the fight and all they can afford. Promoters at first decides the split percentages. Lopez wanted more, but Loma lowered his and made adjustments so the fight can happen. It did. Loma did the same in the Rigo fight. And the Ukrainian fighter is not even someone who had a hard time securing other fights.

Now you're just making things up! Go ahead and review my posts, you won't find anyone of my posts claiming that. What I did state was that Eddie is the one that can offer money, he's the promoter. Ennis can only control the money he accepts to fight which would be stipulated in the contract he has with Matchroom.

The fight with Norman Jr not materializing has nothing to do with Boots and everything to do with Eddie and Norman senior...

[MulaKO]

Now you're just making things up! Go ahead and review my posts, you won't find anyone of my posts claiming that. What I did state was that Eddie is the one that can offer money, he's the promoter. Ennis can only control the money he accepts to fight which would be stipulated in the contract he has with Matchroom.

The fight with Norman Jr not materializing has nothing to do with Boots and everything to do with Eddie and Norman senior...

I disagree with your last statement
If Ennis wanted this fight badly he could of pushed and also cut some money off the top to get the fight
Boots didn’t want it just like he didn’t want Ortiz fight
Something tells me that they a afraid of something
Its multiple fights they refuse

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

I read that to get the Norman fight it was another 500 000
That's not big money for these guys

Yes another $500k would have secured the fight. That's on Eddie though. As a fight fan I would have liked for Eddie to cough up $500k, but I'm just the fight fan, I'm not the one shelling out the dough...

Some argue that Norman Jr should have taken the $1.7 because that's way more than he's ever earned before. It's not my place to say what Eddie should have offered or what Norman should have accepted, I was simply in disagreement that it was Boots' fault that this fight in particular fell through.

Somehow the poster I was discussing with changed it from Boots' fault to guaranteed amounts per fight not existing.

[MulaKO]

Yes another $500k would have secured the fight. That's on Eddie though. As a fight fan I would have liked for Eddie to cough up $500k, but I'm just the fight fan, I'm not the one shelling out the dough...

Some argue that Norman Jr should have taken the $1.7 because that's way more than he's ever earned before. It's not my place to say what Eddie should have offered or what Norman should have accepted, I was simply in disagreement that it was Boots' fault that this fight in particular fell through.

Somehow the poster I was discussing with changed it from Boots' fault to guaranteed amounts per fight not existing.

All I’m saying is Boots could of told his promoter that’s the guy I want and Slow fughin Eddie would have to abide by it
In the end , it’s boots who decides who and when

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

I disagree with your last statement
If Ennis wanted this fight badly he could of pushed and also cut some money off the top to get the fight
Boots didn’t want it just like he didn’t want Ortiz fight
Something tells me that they a afraid of something
Its multiple fights they refuse

I can understand your reasoning, but I personally wouldn't lower my pay that I had originally agreed to in contract. For all we know, Boots' might have pushed Eddie and Eddie might have asked Boots' "We taking the extra $500k off your pay"? To which Boots might have said "no, not off my pay".

As per the Virgil fight, that's different. There was no issue with money as Turki was meeting everyone's financial desires. Boots just didn't want to fight Virgil, that's very apparent, in my opinion.

[tomhawq]

There are no such stipulations. Guarantees are negotiated for every fight. They vary. It always depends on the risk the promoter is willing to take FOR EVERY FIGHT. Arum made investments on Crawford, thinking it would double, triple his investments eventually. They never did. Bomac and Bud scammed Bob from the very start. Bud made an average of $1.4 million for every fight; one mil in the Dierry or Lundy, for example, 1.2 mil in the Postol, 4 mil in the Khan, and so on. They VARY. Bud was viciously against the proposed paycut during covid. He got what he wanted in the Khan fight. Bob was crying he lost a lot of money and nobody bought the PPV card.

Looking at those figures, $1.7 million is indeed a huge offer, especially for non established fighters bearing in mind Matchroom is just like any US promoter struggling to make huge money offers. It's not even DAZN or Turki money, it's coming from Matchroom's pockets. It's so silly reading fans sneezing at $500K as additional offer.
You may recall that Hearn threatened to sue Amanda Serrano for the $10K as initial payment for the 1st Taylor fight. Apparently, Serrano was having second thoughts with the deal, probably influenced by Jake Paul. I mean $10K which is probably not enough to cover 2 weeks of training expenses. And here we have these fans sneezing at $500K as if money grows on trees.

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

All I’m saying is Boots could of told his promoter that’s the guy I want and Slow fughin Eddie would have to abide by it
In the end , it’s boots who decides who and when

It's obvious that many of today's fighters aren't like the fighters of yesteryear. Fighters of the past would almost always agree to the amount they were offered. Devin Haney, turned down the purse bid from Arum to fight Martin because he didn't feel it was enough. Crawford only wants to fight Canelo because of the huge purse he would make instead of taking the Virgil fight when Turki offered him the Virgil fight after Virgil fought Bohachuk.