Comments Thread For: Report: Ryan Garcia Tests Positive for PED, Being Processed for Second Positive

[IronDanHamza]

[QUOTE=kafkod;n32250848]

Wrongly listed ingredients and contamination can both be demonstrably proved. Sometimes, circumstancial evidence can be so strong the examiners decide that demonstrable proof isn't necessary.

Not for the specific blood sample that failed it can’t.

[kafkod]

Not for the specific blood sample that failed it can’t.

Ok. The kind of demonstrable proof that you seem to be talking about, which would require time machines and human beings tiny enough to pass through the needle of a syringe while wearing microscopic scuba diving gear so they don't drown in blood samples, is not a realistic proposition.

[IronDanHamza]

Ok. The kind of demonstrable proof that you seem to be talking about, which would require time machines and human beings tiny enough to pass through the needle of a syringe while wearing microscopic scuba diving gear so they don't drown in blood samples, is not a realistic proposition.

Precisely.

Hence why it’s impossible to demonstrably prove.

[kafkod]

Precisely.

Hence why it’s impossible to demonstrably prove.

And also why it isn't necessary to demonstrably prove something to that degree in order to be cleared of cheating.

The testing teams and the athletes being tested are all fallible human beings who sometimes make mistakes. Any system which doesn't allow for basic human fallibility is unfair.

[tokon]

"Contaminated samples/supplements" coming in five . . . four . . . .three . . . . two . . . .

"Garcia has professed his innocence multiple times on X and Instagram, floating a theory that an over-the-counter supplement he ingested was possibly tainted."

Wow! Surprise, surprise.

[IronDanHamza]

And also why it isn't necessary to demonstrably prove something to that degree in order to be cleared of cheating.

The testing teams and the athletes being tested are all fallible human beings who sometimes make mistakes. Any system which doesn't allow for basic human fallibility is unfair.

If PEDs are in to your system that is entirely your fault. There is no excuse for it, even if the person generously wasn’t trying to cheat.

Of course it is. If you can’t demonstrably prove it, which we’ve established you can’t, then the whole process is irrelevant.

[kafkod]

If PEDs are in to your system that is entirely your fault. There is no excuse for it, even if the person generously wasn’t trying to cheat.

Of course it is. If you can’t demonstrably prove it, which we’ve established you can’t, then the whole process is irrelevant.

What we established here is that you don't understand what it means to prove that something happened.

Clue: It doesn't mean that you have to see it happening, in real time, with your own eyes.

[IronDanHamza]

What we established here is that you don't understand what it means to prove that something happened.

Clue: It doesn't mean that you have to see it happening, in real time, with your own eyes.

No I really do. It’s you that doesn’t.

I didn’t say anything about “seeing it happen”. You don’t need to see it happen, you just need to demonstrably prove which when it comes to PED use, you can’t.

You can gets an experts opinion, you can get the the timings of the positive samples, you can determine its trace amounts consistent with contamination, you can get the potential supplements that it could have came from, and yes we can make the educated guess that this could be the reason, sure.

But that doesn’t mean it is, it could also be a plethora or other reasons whilst a fighter is cycling, or micro dosing, or whatever else it could be.

Hence, why, it’s impossible to know in these PED cases. Whether a panel “clears” them or not.

And, the reason why you aren’t entitled to the benefit of the doubt if you fail a drug test, especially if you fail 2 drug tests, for 2 different compounds, in Garcia’s case with Ostarine and Deca, is because there is no excuse what so ever to have PED’s in your system. We know that even over the counter supplements have the possibility of contamination, if you are hyper diligent as an athlete, and have someone educated on these things in your camp, you WILL NOT have PEDs in your system. Simple.

So the benefit of the doubt is not granted to you, and even if you are cleared by a panel, the asterisk will never leave you. And that is entirely the fighters fault and no one elses.

[kafkod]

No I really do. It’s you that doesn’t.

I didn’t say anything about “seeing it happen”. You don’t need to see it happen, you just need to demonstrably prove which when it comes to PED use, you can’t.

You can gets an experts opinion, you can get the the timings of the positive samples, you can determine its trace amounts consistent with contamination, you can get the potential supplements that it could have came from, and yes we can make the educated guess that this could be the reason, sure.

But that doesn’t mean it is, it could also be a plethora or other reasons whilst a fighter is cycling, or micro dosing, or whatever else it could be.

Hence, why, it’s impossible to know in these PED cases. Whether a panel “clears” them or not.

And, the reason why you aren’t entitled to the benefit of the doubt if you fail a drug test, especially if you fail 2 drug tests, for 2 different compounds, in Garcia’s case with Ostarine and Deca, is because there is no excuse what so ever to have PED’s in your system. We know that even over the counter supplements have the possibility of contamination, if you are hyper diligent as an athlete, and have someone educated on these things in your camp, you WILL NOT have PEDs in your system. Simple.

So the benefit of the doubt is not granted to you, and even if you are cleared by a panel, the asterisk will never leave you. And that is entirely the fighters fault and no one elses.

I said that athletes who test positive get the benefit of the doubt and are not condemned as cheats before the test results are investigated. That's how the system works. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.

If they test positive but can prove that supplements they ingested were contaminated with a banned substance or had wrongly listed ingredients - by having those supplements tested - they will be cleared. They are required to take all reasonable precautions to avoid accidentally ingesting a banned substance. That means keeping up to date with the banned substances list and checking the ingredients of everything before they consume it.

It isn't reasonable to expect all fighters - some of whom will be novices or journeymen fighting for peanuts - to pay for everything they eat, drink or take as a supplement to be analysed by a lab before they ingest it.

Again, that's how the system works. Whether random people talking shit online agree with it or not is irrelevant.

[IronDanHamza]

I said that athletes who test positive get the benefit of the doubt and are not condemned as cheats before the test results are investigated. That's how the system works. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.

If they test positive but can prove that supplements they ingested were contaminated with a banned substance or had wrongly listed ingredients - by having those supplements tested - they will be cleared. They are required to take all reasonable precautions to avoid accidentally ingesting a banned substance. That means keeping up to date with the banned substances list and checking the ingredients of everything before they consume it.

It isn't reasonable to expect all fighters - some of whom will be novices or journeymen fighting for peanuts - to pay for everything they eat, drink or take as a supplement to be analysed by a lab before they ingest it.

Again, that's how the system works. Whether random people talking shit online agree with it or not is irrelevant.

Right exactly and the system is broken is the point. It’s nonsensical.

There’s no way of knowing if they intentionally cheated so it’s irrelevant. It’s a very simple solution, don’t take over the counter supplements. We know they’re an issue, why an athlete would take them I don’t know. None of my tested guys do for that very reason.

Garcia tested positive for Nandrolone, which is another thing your body produces in minscule amounts naturally, like Test and HGH like previously discussed. But it’s still a banned substance, that as above the threshold, in his body.

At the end of the day, the PEDs are in your system, once they’re in there, that black marks never going to go away. We’ll never know if it was done intentionally, same goes for 99% of all fighters who fail drug tests.