Comments Thread For: Derrick James: It Will Be Hard for Devin Haney to Recover From a Beating Like That

[billeau2]

If one takes a minute and considers the situation in these fighting divisions it shouldn't be a surprise that some of the best fighters walk into a situation where they are exposed. That's the nature of the game.

When MMA started and the grapplers had such advantages they maintain those advantages until it was shown how to counter them. And the gracies were professional fighters. So even with that advantage in the original tournaments guys went to the drawing board and figured it out.

You can't have six or seven or four or three incredible fighters never encountering any obstacles especially if they're willing to fight each other. Haney it was his turn lol. People had written Ryan off let's remember that. This whole thread we could substitute Ryan after the tank fight it would sound very similar.

I don't know if Haney can bounce back... I didn't know if Ryan could bounce back, or if he really even did bounce back time will tell..

To me? The most consistent of the bunch, is probably Pitbull cruise. I think he beat tank. That's the debatable but he fought a great fight either way and he is very careful and how he utilizes his advantage as a pressure fighter. He's also very technically sound. I think he would be the hardest one to expose of the bunch.

[1Eriugenus]

Really intelligent & interesting comments on here. I still think that Tank can be top beast. He has a supremely high ring IQ & I don't think anyone else comes close to it. He is just one bad MoFo. Shakur probably has better skills, Ryan has scarier power, Isaac has strength & stamina &, as you say, better skills than people acknowledge. I just can't look beyond Tank. He's already beat Ryan & Isaac & IMO he will beat Shakur, because he will make the necessary adjustments to do that. To me, Gervonta just is the money.

[megas30]

Let's go paragraph by paragraph. You know the old expression if it ain't broke don't fix it? As much as I admire tape and skill. There's no question that when you watch a great fighter you can see things that are phenomenal. But the idea is to win the fight. And one of the oldest strategies is to make somebody counter something. When they counter it you do something else in some fashion. Garcia never had a reason not to hit Haney the way he did come on you got to see this megas!

If we're fighting and you keep punching me in the face, the last thing you're going to do is say maybe I should use a more sophisticated approach lol. Garcia used his speed because it worked. You want to know why that was a little bit more technically sound than you may imagine?

Watch when Andre Ward fought Dawson. Watch how he set his hook up for the knockout. He kept throwing the punch on Dawson's guard, knowing Dawson was carrying his guard low. So Dawson now says to himself I've got wards hook covered right? Once this was established ward just through the hook another few inches up and knocked Dawson out.

Haney was not guarding against the hook. He made a mistake that is common in that he was relying upon his reactions and where he thought his guard was. Veteran fighters always try to anticipate and position and do not rely on reacting. You're not giving Garcia enough credit that he read this. In my opinion anyway.

Again agreed to disagree. Mayorga was a very explosive puncher. He had a phenomenal punch and he knew how to use it effectively. He wasn't ATG, but he was excellent. Look at who he beat.

Mayorga's problem was that he really couldn't maintain and ultimately he fought some guys who were great fighters who got a read on how he was effective. Majorca was also a bully. And bullies just have a weakness. You're not going to intimidate fighters like de La Hoya. Or even Vargas.

So you think Forest was overrated? Come on man...

I can entertain an argument that Loma is overrated. I don't buy it myself but if you really watch Loma, he has tendencies that seem to be part of the Ukrainian system. You see the same thing with Usyk. They have a good technical foundation that is in some ways even unique, but they love to get physical and overpower their opponent the first chance they get.

No matter what Floyd did, he never really was out of character from the standpoint of being technically great and using that to win. If you watch Loma against the great Cuban fighter. If you watch usyk against Mike hunter, or Bellew, for example, you will see how quickly both Ukrainian fighters become bullies and use little technical chops. That just tells me that when push comes to shove that's what will happen in the ring.

No man no way. Tank is very talented but he is a protected fighter and the Garcia that he fought was seriously lacking physically. Again totally disagree with that. You can say Garcia is lacking but you cannot say that the man that fought tank that night lost because of how good tank is. Garcia's lucky to be alive frankly. Taking a liver shot with virtually no protection in your body is very bad among other things.

Hanny is a young fighter and in those divisions you cannot make mistakes. But some of that is his training. I'm not even saying bills a bad trainer but telling somebody to duck under a hook throwing with the speed that Garcia throws, it is ridiculous. To beat circular attacks you have to check your line and you have to check your angle it's not an up and down movement proposition.

So will Haney get better? I think when he sits on his punches he has pop. He also has resistance his chin is not so bad that he gets koed. Though technically he lost this fight by a k0 a few times over imo. Time will tell. I'm not sold that he's damaged goods as you are, but I don't know either way at this point.

Bro, you're exposing your hypocrisy. You Glorified Ryan's win against Haney and dismissed Haney's dehydration excuse, while all the same time downplaying Tank's win against Garcia by using Garcia's dehydration excuse. Tank beats Garcia 10/10 times any day.

[billeau2]

Bro, you're exposing your hypocrisy. You Glorified Ryan's win against Haney and dismissed Haney's dehydration excuse, while all the same time downplaying Tank's win against Garcia by using Garcia's dehydration excuse. Tank beats Garcia 10/10 times any day.

You're exposing your stubbornness. I basically explain my position agreed to disagree you keep coming back to this raising the same points that I addressed. I don't care about anybody's excuses. I look I have eyes I can look and see how Ryan looked for that fight. Ryan was bigger than Haney but it was not by such a great margin. If you can't understand that that's on you you have eyes don't you?

So unless you have something new to add just stop making ridiculous points. You're making all this little flim flam and I'm just telling you use your eyes. If you can't tell the difference between Ryan looking like a concentration camp survivor and Ryan being marginally bigger than Haney that's really on you there's no hypocrisy about it.

I never made a point about who would win between tank and Ryan bro... Is that something you want to add to the conversation? God forbid I disagree lol.

[billeau2]

Really intelligent & interesting comments on here. I still think that Tank can be top beast. He has a supremely high ring IQ & I don't think anyone else comes close to it. He is just one bad MoFo. Shakur probably has better skills, Ryan has scarier power, Isaac has strength & stamina &, as you say, better skills than people acknowledge. I just can't look beyond Tank. He's already beat Ryan & Isaac & IMO he will beat Shakur, because he will make the necessary adjustments to do that. To me, Gervonta just is the money.

I mean if you look at the Isaac fight, that was a debatable win just something to consider. I am a bit of a hypocrite as megas has said lol I do not like to make excuses for fighters. But I'm going to be a hypocrite again here and say the Ryan that appeared before tank was no condition to fight anybody.

Sometimes somebody is so compromised it just is what it is. I mean the judges make decisions but if you watch the Pitbull fight he was really in charge. One can certainly make a case that tank won that fight, or that Pitbull won it, fact is it was a very close fight that either guy could have gotten the nod for.

There's no doubt in my mind that tank is very talented. I do think he probably would beat Ryan but Ryan has that punch and is always dangerous. Also I don't think we know how good Ryan really is at this point. He has been exposed and reborn lol. We may see the same thing with Haney.

Tank does himself a disservice because he is protected. I'm actually looking forward to this next fight I don't know much about Martin but despite the best planning he may give tank some problems who knows?

[IceTrayDaGang]

aka devin haney should fire his pops and come train with me... i have room for 1 more.

[megas30]

You're exposing your stubbornness. I basically explain my position agreed to disagree you keep coming back to this raising the same points that I addressed. I don't care about anybody's excuses. I look I have eyes I can look and see how Ryan looked for that fight. Ryan was bigger than Haney but it was not by such a great margin. If you can't understand that that's on you you have eyes don't you?

So unless you have something new to add just stop making ridiculous points. You're making all this little flim flam and I'm just telling you use your eyes. If you can't tell the difference between Ryan looking like a concentration camp survivor and Ryan being marginally bigger than Haney that's really on you there's no hypocrisy about it.

I never made a point about who would win between tank and Ryan bro... Is that something you want to add to the conversation? God forbid I disagree lol.

The point is Haney had to squeeze into his frame as well. Most people saw that Haney was dehydrated from the weigh-in. Not a big fan of Haney, but it was quite obvious. Garcia came in with an advantage not having to go the extra mile to lose weight. If dehydration affected Garcia against Tank, it most definitely affected Haney against Garcia. You can't have it both ways.

[billeau2]

The point is Haney had to squeeze into his frame as well. Most people saw that Haney was dehydrated from the weigh-in. Not a big fan of Haney, but it was quite obvious. Garcia came in with an advantage not having to go the extra mile to lose weight. If dehydration affected Garcia against Tank, it most definitely affected Haney against Garcia. You can't have it both ways.

Well okay I understand your point of contention. The thing is? There are degrees here. And a lot of times in an argument things are absolute. In this case? If you look and see the difference you will see the degree of dehydration that Ryan experienced against tank was considerable. The degree that Garcia and Haney in their fight dealt with as a handicap in any capacity, was not nearly to the same degree.

I mean a cursory look you can see they are basically the same size. They probably weigh similar. But let me just concede that it was definitely an advantage for Ryan not to have to make weight. There's no question about it.

I'm just looking. I'm not making any sort of principal remark about what I believe is right or wrong. Frankly Garcia should not have agreed to that fight with tank. Same goes for haney with Garcia.

[megas30]

Well okay I understand your point of contention. The thing is? There are degrees here. And a lot of times in an argument things are absolute. In this case? If you look and see the difference you will see the degree of dehydration that Ryan experienced against tank was considerable. The degree that Garcia and Haney in their fight dealt with as a handicap in any capacity, was not nearly to the same degree.

I mean a cursory look you can see they are basically the same size. They probably weigh similar. But let me just concede that it was definitely an advantage for Ryan not to have to make weight. There's no question about it.

I'm just looking. I'm not making any sort of principal remark about what I believe is right or wrong. Frankly Garcia should not have agreed to that fight with tank. Same goes for haney with Garcia.

Thank you. You are a good poster, but sometimes we must hold each other to task. I wish this catchweight nonsense had gone away with Manny Pacquaio, but obviously, it didn't. Fight at your weight class and if you have grown out of the weight class, then move on to the next.

[billeau2]

Thank you. You are a good poster, but sometimes we must hold each other to task. I wish this catchweight nonsense had gone away with Manny Pacquaio, but obviously, it didn't. Fight at your weight class and if you have grown out of the weight class, then move on to the next.

Yeah boxing used to be a lot more simple with respect to weight and classes. And it also affected people's attitudes. It seems nowadays you try to find a weight class rather than develop what you need to to compete in your weight class. Then you mix in all the different associations it becomes a game of pick'em lol.

Catch weights can be interesting when you have two great fighters who do have to meet in the middle. But they're also abused. And same day weigh-ins seem to be something we should consider again.

People may not be aware. I will remember when I was young doing martial arts I could easily lose at least 5 lb in a day. Especially with hydration factors. Hence it doesn't surprise me some guys have found a way to game the system when it comes to fighting weights.