Comments Thread For: Josh Taylor: I've Got Plenty Left; All The Greats Have Had Losses, But They're Still Great Fighters

[M111]

Consider how badly the former 140 champions have fared though. Haney destroyed Prograis, who Taylor barely triumphed over. Taylor had a very close decision over Ramirez even though he scored two knockdowns. And Ramirez had a close fight with Pedraza, who's more of a gatekeeper these days. Taylor also should have lost to Catterall, who's not really a world beater either, and did get absolutely schooled by Teo. Baranchyk just lost to Jose Zepeda and Montana Love. Is he world class?

None of his wins are aging well. If anything, it speaks to how shabby the 140 division was at the time.

Again would largely disagree. The Prograis Haney beat was 5 years older and half a dozen fights later. That’s a long time in boxing. Similarly Taylor fought Catterrall best part of 3 years after Prograis. So the conclusions you’re drawing are failing to take that into account.

Some fighters have a very short shelf life at the top and Taylor for one in my opinion has declined rapidly. Also consider that covid and lockdown happened **** in between and that hit older fighters harder due to inactivity.

Haney didn’t destroy Prograis. Haney doesn’t destroy anyone, he’s a pillow fisted defensive boredom. Ridiculous statement. Yes he fought a shutout and it was boring to watch. Prograis looked old just like Taylor did against Lopez.

Taylor, Prograis and Ramirez are the old guard of 140. Haney, Lopez and Garcia the up comers. Happens all the time in boxing a changing of the guard. It doesn’t diminish the achievements of the generation before them.

[Lefty0616]

utter garbage. He earned all his titles the hard way and one at a time. Nothing to do with race at all. Taylor now is a good boxer. Taylor when he beat Prograis and Ramirez was the best in the division. You can’t compare now to then. Lopez wouldn’t have beaten the version of Taylor that beat Prograis but that’s not the version of Taylor he fought. Completely disagree that Taylor was overrated. He won his titles in close fights one at a time. Anyone who unifies a division like that can’t possibly be overrated.

Simple fact is that age, lifestyle, inactivity and injury mean he’s not the fighter that he once was. That in no way belittles his achievements when he was in his prime.

All lies. Myths even.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Again would largely disagree. The Prograis Haney beat was 5 years older and half a dozen fights later. That’s a long time in boxing. Similarly Taylor fought Catterrall best part of 3 years after Prograis. So the conclusions you’re drawing are failing to take that into account.

And what did he do to distinguish himself with those five fights? Let's also point out he had reclaimed a world title right before the Haney fight. So you don't get to have it both ways. His resume wasn't really impressive before either. He beat Relikh for his first title, who is hardly world class, and immediately lost it. His only title defense was a split against a weak opponent, and that was right before the Haney fight. He's done nothing to distinguish himself. Most of the champions Inoue beat have vastly better resumes, for instance. As for the Haney fight, he got knocked down and lost basically every minute by a boring pillow fisted fighter who got a gift against an aging Loma, who probably should have stayed at 126/130. Hardly a great win for Josh. And if he's so terrible, losing every minute and getting knocked down is absolutely getting destroyed.

Some fighters have a very short shelf life at the top and Taylor for one in my opinion has declined rapidly. Also consider that covid and lockdown happened **** in between and that hit older fighters harder due to inactivity.

And yet you've got other older fighters who managed to come through the pandemic and still do just fine. This is just a cop out. An alternate explanation that fits the evidence is that Taylor won against weak opponents in a weak division, and was never that good. He's got 3 signature wins, most of which he barely sc****d by, and NONE of whom distinguished themselves after.

Taylor, Prograis and Ramirez are the old guard of 140. Haney, Lopez and Garcia the up comers. Happens all the time in boxing a changing of the guard. It doesn’t diminish the achievements of the generation before them.

What exactly are those achievements? Tell me about how Josh's best wins have exceptional resumes. Who are they, and what did they accomplish that's so great?

[M111]

And what did he do to distinguish himself with those five fights? Let's also point out he had reclaimed a world title right before the Haney fight. So you don't get to have it both ways. His resume wasn't really impressive before either. He beat Relikh for his first title, who is hardly world class, and immediately lost it. His only title defense was a split against a weak opponent, and that was right before the Haney fight. He's done nothing to distinguish himself. Most of the champions Inoue beat have vastly better resumes, for instance. As for the Haney fight, he got knocked down and lost basically every minute by a boring pillow fisted fighter who got a gift against an aging Loma, who probably should have stayed at 126/130. Hardly a great win for Josh. And if he's so terrible, losing every minute and getting knocked down is absolutely getting destroyed.



And yet you've got other older fighters who managed to come through the pandemic and still do just fine. This is just a cop out. An alternate explanation that fits the evidence is that Taylor won against weak opponents in a weak division, and was never that good. He's got 3 signature wins, most of which he barely sc****d by, and NONE of whom distinguished themselves after.



What exactly are those achievements? Tell me about how Josh's best wins have exceptional resumes. Who are they, and what did they accomplish that's so great?

So beating Postol, Baranchyk, Prograis and Ramirez back to back, unifying the division and beating two other world champions in the process wasn’t any sort of achievement in your opinion hen? They were literally the top 4 fighters in the division at the time. Fine, the division may not have had the depth of say 147 at the time, but again it doesn’t diminish the achievement.

History will show that Taylor was only the fourth undisputed champion in the 4 belt era so your somewhat inaccurate and skewed opinion is of little consequence.

[TheOneAboveAll]

Again would largely disagree. The Prograis Haney beat was 5 years older and half a dozen fights later. That’s a long time in boxing. Similarly Taylor fought Catterrall best part of 3 years after Prograis. So the conclusions you’re drawing are failing to take that into account.

Some fighters have a very short shelf life at the top and Taylor for one in my opinion has declined rapidly. Also consider that covid and lockdown happened **** in between and that hit older fighters harder due to inactivity.

Haney didn’t destroy Prograis. Haney doesn’t destroy anyone, he’s a pillow fisted defensive boredom. Ridiculous statement. Yes he fought a shutout and it was boring to watch. Prograis looked old just like Taylor did against Lopez.

Taylor, Prograis and Ramirez are the old guard of 140. Haney, Lopez and Garcia the up comers. Happens all the time in boxing a changing of the guard. It doesn’t diminish the achievements of the generation before them.

Agree with a lot of this, except the part about Haney not utterly dominating Prograis. He washed him for 12 rds, knocked him down and repeatedly stunned him. A KO might not have been as impressive as his 120-107 x3 decision win. Having said that, some of us fans did insist that Prograis was vastly overrated despite being a 140lb champion.

[crimsonfalcon07]

So beating Postol, Baranchyk, Prograis and Ramirez back to back, unifying the division and beating two other world champions in the process wasn’t any sort of achievement in your opinion hen? They were literally the top 4 fighters in the division at the time. Fine, the division may not have had the depth of say 147 at the time, but again it doesn’t diminish the achievement.

History will show that Taylor was only the fourth undisputed champion in the 4 belt era so your somewhat inaccurate and skewed opinion is of little consequence.

This in bold is the point. His signature wins were against comparatively weak competition. None of those guys were P4P worthy, let alone HOF. Compare their accomplishments to those in other divisions, and they're nothing special. Winning against weak competition absolutely diminishes the accomplishment. Like that's literally what defines the accomplishment. Beating strong opponents is by definition more of an accomplishment than beating weak opponents. Inoue gets the same sort of criticism regularly, yet his opponents have largely had better resumes than Josh's. Taylor's opponents have mostly had similar resumes to Paul Butler. And Josh squeaked by in most of his fights at the top level.

Vik Postol won his belt as a vacant against a weak contender whose best claims are that he was a secondary titlist, then promptly lost it to Bud. And it's not like Taylor beat Bud. Postol fought Taylor 2 years later. Half an eternity, according to you. Since the Taylor fight, he's gone 2-3. That's hardly a great opponent.

I already covered the other wins. None of them have done anything, and they have all ****** after they fought Taylor. Baranchyk is 1-2 since the Taylor fight. We talked about Prograis. Ramirez looks the most likely to still be a decent contender, but he's playing the money card and sitting out far too often. None of those wins age well. Literally not a single one. Would any of them be favored against Matias, Haney, or Teo now? Would they be able to compete at 147? The only reason Taylor was able to unify was that he got lucky to have a WBSS for his division, just as Usyk got his in the WBSS, and Inoue got a lot of his in the same tournament. The main reason there's not more undisputed champions is that champions, especially weak ones, are reluctant to unify without a major incentive. For most of those, the chance at a $50 million prize pool is the chance of a lifetime, especially for a weak division.

So I'm going to ask you again. What makes his wins special? Why are the aforementioned Postol, Baranchyk, Prograis, Ramirez such a "murderer's row" of elite talent?

Also, wasn't Taylor the 5th? BHop, Jermain Taylor, Bud, Usyk, Josh Taylor, Canelo, Mell Charlo, Inoue, Bud, Inoue.

[BubblesNI]

Its a little disingenuous belittling Josh Taylors achievements , he done very well for a few years and won all 4 Belts. His lifestyle since fighting Ramirez though was never compatible with coming back and achieving anything else.

Not sure he would have beaten a Prime Lopez but it certainly would have been a lot closer before his wild partying took over.

[M111]

Agree with a lot of this, except the part about Haney not utterly dominating Prograis. He washed him for 12 rds, knocked him down and repeatedly stunned him. A KO might not have been as impressive as his 120-107 x3 decision win. Having said that, some of us fans did insist that Prograis was vastly overrated despite being a 140lb champion.

The original term I had disagreed with was that he’d ‘destroyed’ him. To me that means a brutal knockout or similar. I’d agreed Haney dominated him although in my opinion it wasn’t exactly a scintillating performance. Haney tries to fight like mayweather but doesn’t quite get there and at the moment is only beating guys because he’s bigger and longer and plays safe from the outside all night. His footwork is average as is his defence if opponents manage to overcome his size and close the distance. He’s got no in fighting instincts unlike mayweather.

[M111]

This in bold is the point. His signature wins were against comparatively weak competition. None of those guys were P4P worthy, let alone HOF. Compare their accomplishments to those in other divisions, and they're nothing special. Winning against weak competition absolutely diminishes the accomplishment. Like that's literally what defines the accomplishment. Beating strong opponents is by definition more of an accomplishment than beating weak opponents. Inoue gets the same sort of criticism regularly, yet his opponents have largely had better resumes than Josh's. Taylor's opponents have mostly had similar resumes to Paul Butler. And Josh squeaked by in most of his fights at the top level.

Vik Postol won his belt as a vacant against a weak contender whose best claims are that he was a secondary titlist, then promptly lost it to Bud. And it's not like Taylor beat Bud. Postol fought Taylor 2 years later. Half an eternity, according to you. Since the Taylor fight, he's gone 2-3. That's hardly a great opponent.

I already covered the other wins. None of them have done anything, and they have all ****** after they fought Taylor. Baranchyk is 1-2 since the Taylor fight. We talked about Prograis. Ramirez looks the most likely to still be a decent contender, but he's playing the money card and sitting out far too often. None of those wins age well. Literally not a single one. Would any of them be favored against Matias, Haney, or Teo now? Would they be able to compete at 147? The only reason Taylor was able to unify was that he got lucky to have a WBSS for his division, just as Usyk got his in the WBSS, and Inoue got a lot of his in the same tournament. The main reason there's not more undisputed champions is that champions, especially weak ones, are reluctant to unify without a major incentive. For most of those, the chance at a $50 million prize pool is the chance of a lifetime, especially for a weak division.

So I'm going to ask you again. What makes his wins special? Why are the aforementioned Postol, Baranchyk, Prograis, Ramirez such a "murderer's row" of elite talent?

Also, wasn't Taylor the 5th? BHop, Jermain Taylor, Bud, Usyk, Josh Taylor, Canelo, Mell Charlo, Inoue, Bud, Inoue.

What makes IT special is that he beat all of them. I’d agree that singularly none are hugely special or HOF or as good as fighters from say 147. However when taken as a whole beating all of them and becoming an undisputed champion is an achievement as history will show. A bit like Canelo’s title grab at 168.

[M111]

The rest is just your personal opinion on the quality of those opponents at the time which, I’m sure, a lot of people reading, like me, will largely disagree with.