So Beterbiev tested for high levels of HGH and testosterone

[jaded]

Where did it say that his tests came back "through the roof"? Now you're just making stuff up. What was reported was "raised levels" but nothing surpassing that threshold required to violate any rules or laws. Raised levels means anything between average and high but within a normal value range.

I've had to do blood work before and had one test come back saying I had high levels of hemoglobin (but within acceptable levels), and then when I did the test again, it was slightly lower than average. These tests will fluctuate for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes the time of day can affect the outcome of a test. Usually lab work taking in the mornings will result in higher levels of testosterone than if lab work is done in the afternoon or toward evening.

There are all kinds of factors that could explain the outcome, so it's pointless to speculate when, ultimately, Beterbeiv's test were normal.

I just saw a Dr this afternoon, and we discuss some blood work I had. I questioned an irregularity in a recent test, and he told me that you can take a blood test 700 times, and you will get 700 results.

[IronDanHamza]

Yeah. That's possible. I've always said that if I were to cheat, the two drugs I'd use would be HGH and TRT (or maybe it would just be testosterone). Using drugs that actually mimic natural hormones are nigh impossible to detect if done correctly.

I have to say, however, that if abuse is going on, they're other signs, which I'm sure you know about. For example, I've yet to see someone escape the dreaded body acne, especially bacne, when abusing androgens. (I'm trying to find it but I can find it now, but there was a photo I saw where Canelo had developed acne on his back.)

Sometimes there are visible signs that make it obvious, but Beterbiev is not in the media often enough to really tell. For HGH, one of the first things I notice is a change in a man's jawline. His chin will look different, kind of wider. This is why I thought a lot of these boxers start growing beards later on in their career, to hide the change to their jawline. (When Manny and Floyd started to grow beards, it made me su****ious.)

Anyway, it's just speculation right now. However, if it were me, and I was in my 40s fighting professionally or close to it, I definitely would be using Testosterone and possibly HGH. I'd do just to remain competitive and as a way to PROTECT MYSELF, not necessarily to win. Just to make sure I hold my own and come out okay.

Abusing maybe, but I wouldn't think a lot of these fighters are abusing stuff as opposed to using it intelligently.

Acne can be avoided, it's all just genetics really. I have trained IFBB Pros who are on the borderline of abuse when it comes to their cycle and never had a spot. Even with acne, accutane can usually clear most of it. But then on the flipside I've worked with guys who aren't pro and never will be who get terrible acne with just 1 ml of test+NPP a week. So everyone reacts different.

Me myself? I had a share of acne, not too bad, came and went. When I used Trenbolone I would usually get a fair share of acne that accutane would get rid of.

It's hard to tell really, is Beterbiev on gear? I'd say in my opinon probably. But it's difficult to know without the solid proof in the bloods or urine.

Floyd and Pacquaio, to me, are extremely obvious cases of PED use. But again, impossible to really KNOW for sure.

Someone like Canelo, we know used PEDs. And safe to bet he still is.

[Cypocryphy]

I just saw a Dr this afternoon, and we discuss some blood work I had. I questioned an irregularity in a recent test, and he told me that you can take a blood test 700 times, and you will get 700 results.

Yup! Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. This is why something has to be significant, almost extreme, due to fluctuations. So when I hear a test came back where natural occurring hormones were "elevated" but then were "normal" in the next test tells me that this is actually normal. The first test could have occurred first thing in the morning or during a fasting period.

For example:

Intermittent fasting boosts HGH, which in turn, may promote increased testosterone production. Although not firmly established, considerable supportive research data has been found on male **** and more recently on humans.

Read article "here."

This is important because Artur does fast as a practicing ******. Did he fast during the time he had been tested where it showed raised levels?

[LilMac006]

Russians have a LONG history of doping. Can't even compete in the Olympics as a country any more because they're such blatant cheats, and they're still doing it anyways.

That probably why Russian fighters look like the hulk on steroids

[Cypocryphy]

Abusing maybe, but I wouldn't think a lot of these fighters are abusing stuff as opposed to using it intelligently.

Acne can be avoided, it's all just genetics really. I have trained IFBB Pros who are on the borderline of abuse when it comes to their cycle and never had a spot. Even with acne, accutane can usually clear most of it. But then on the flipside I've worked with guys who aren't pro and never will be who get terrible acne with just 1 ml of test+NPP a week. So everyone reacts different.

Me myself? I had a share of acne, not too bad, came and went. When I used Trenbolone I would usually get a fair share of acne that accutane would get rid of.

It's hard to tell really, is Beterbiev on gear? I'd say in my opinon probably. But it's difficult to know without the solid proof in the bloods or urine.

Floyd and Pacquaio, to me, are extremely obvious cases of PED use. But again, impossible to really KNOW for sure.

Someone like Canelo, we know used PEDs. And safe to bet he still is.

Oh man! You used trenbolone? That stuff scares the bejesus out of me. Take care of yourself bro. I'm sure you know what you're doing, but there's been a lot of deaths lately.

[ShoulderRoll]

That is not what I asked you. Pay attention, listen to the questions. Let's not do this again, let's not be a coward and avoid questions. It's a terrible look and you know exactly how it goes.

Let's go one by one so we can get to the very bottom of what is and what isn't likely clean;

Do you have to do the same 365 testing Canelo did to be deemed likely clean? Yes or no will suffice.

9 fights under VADA testing is not enough to deem someone likely clean? Yes or no will suffice.

Floyd did fight by fight USADA testing. Is that enough to deem someone likely clean? Yes or no will suffice.

These are very simple and easy questions. If you answer them we can move on with the discussion. If you avoid them and refuse to answer them then all you're doing is accepting your L.
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Nope, you can't. That is what known as a "double standard". Look it up on google. It also would make you something called a "hypocrite" look that up on google too. Both of those are negative things you don't want to be.

If we establish that Rhabdo can happen without the use of PEDs, and dismiss it. Then we can only do the same for someone having elevated test levels, which can also happen without the use of PEDs. We can't have both, it's one or the other. So pick one.

You are also being overtly intellectually dishonest here.

You can't narrow it down to age with Beterbiev and not do the same with Ortiz.

If that's the case, we need to look into how many 25 year olds have had Rhabdo multiple times and is there a PED link? Then the answer would be likely the vast majority.

So I'm not sure that's a road you'd like to go down.



Ok, I'll have to explain this one to you slower so you understand.

Floyd, was literally, and I mean that by the definition of the term, literally, caught using an illegal amount of fluid in an IV (across two sittings). That is an objective fact, It's not debatable.

He was given a TUE 3 weeks later, why he did, only USADA can answer that, but it doesn't change the fact, again, literal fact, that he was caught using an IV, that was illegal to use.

I gave you my position. You just like to play semantic games and keep asking about the same thing in a different way in a never ending circle until you can claim a “win.”

Go ahead and look into how many 25 year olds get rhabdo multiple times. It’s a condition that you are more likely to experience again anyway once you’ve had it once. But then compare that to atypical testosterone and HGH levels…if one is statistically more frequent than the other then you have more suspect vs less suspect. Simple logic.

Why would USADA give a retroactive TUE if they considered what Floyd did to be illegal and if they didn’t approve it? Are you saying that USADA is corrupt and not trustworthy? You realize Floyd and boxing were small potatoes in their big picture, right? Why would they risk their reputation for him?

[ShoulderRoll]

This is important because Artur does fast as a practicing ******. Did he fast during the time he had been tested where it showed raised levels?

******s fast during Ramadan. Which last year was from March 22 to April 21.

Beterbiev’s VADA test was from December 6.

[jaded]

Yup! Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. This is why something has to be significant, almost extreme, due to fluctuations. So when I hear a test came back where natural occurring hormones were "elevated" but then were "normal" in the next test tells me that this is actually normal. The first test could have occurred first thing in the morning or during a fasting period.

For example: Read article "here."

This is important because Artur does fast as a practicing ******. Did he fast during the time he had been tested where it showed raised levels?

His December 6th test was atypical, but not beyond the threshold, additional tests on December 15 and 21 and January 3rd, all coming in normal, and he was cleared. I don't even know why this is even being debated? People love controversy.

[Cypocryphy]

His December 6th test was atypical, but not beyond the threshold, additional tests on December 15 and 21 and January 3rd, all coming in normal, and he was cleared. I don't even know why this is even being debated? People love controversy.

Completely agree. I think Hearn was being reckless with his verbiage and intentionally so. He could have easily requested from VADA an explanation for the elevated result rather than going to the media and alluding that some unscrupulous is occurring.

[Cypocryphy]

******s fast during Ramadan. Which last year was from March 22 to April 21.

Beterbiev’s VADA test was from December 6.

That's true but that's not the only time ******s fast.

Here's a quote:

Although fasting takes centre stage during Ramadan, it is not exclusive to the holy month. Many devout ******s choose to fast each Monday and Thursday, as the prophet recommended, and on Arafat Day, the day before Eid Al Adha.​

Here's the "article" that the quote was taken from.

So it not only is possible that it was a result of fasting but appears to be the likely explanation.