Comments Thread For: Robert Garcia on Training Vergil Ortiz Again Ahead of 154-Pound Debut: '[It's] as If Nothing Ever Happened.'

[ShoulderRoll]

Well, firstly the likelihood of those two things being the reason are equal to one another. Thereâs no reason to put one ahead of the other.

Secondly, those three things you just named would suggest PED use.

But thatâs besides the point, you dismissed it was PED use when it could very easily be just that. Just as easily as any other reason.

Infact youâve accused people of being âassuredly on PEDsâ for way less.

One reason doesn’t require anything but for Ortiz to be and act like he has always been known to.

The other reason requires him to be a cheater who would do something illegal. He has given no reason to not get the positive benefit of the doubt.

In the case of me saying that Ngannou was almost assuredly on PEDs there is stuff in his history that justifies him NOT getting the positive benefit of the doubt. Like his own lawyer accusing him of being on steroids for UFC 260.

[IronDanHamza]

One reason doesn’t require anything but for Ortiz to be and act like he has always been known to.

The other reason requires him to be a cheater who would do something illegal. He has given no reason to not get the positive benefit of the doubt.

In the case of me saying that Ngannou was almost assuredly on PEDs there is stuff in his history that justifies him NOT getting the positive benefit of the doubt. Like his own lawyer accusing him of being on steroids for UFC 260.

Ok but that doesn’t change the fact the likelihood of either being true is the same. So for you to dismiss it is just ignorant. There is a link between PED use and that, so it’s more than possible that is the reason.

I never said he doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. Somebody said it could be PED use which is absolutely could. You dismissed it as if it couldn’t be the case when it absolutely could be the case.

What? Give me one example of Ngannou’s past that justifies not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Secondly, when did Ngannou’s lawyer accuse him of being on PED’s? That’s the first I’ve heard of it. And, even if that were true, that’s nothing more than an accusation.

Thirdly, he completed a USADA program for UFC 260 and passed all his tests so to you that deems someone clean. Unless you are saying USADA is not a legit testing procedure?

[ijudge]

nothing happened with his career, yes.

[boxingitis]

Possibly, either way as I said in my first post ruining his body to be a weight bully

He wasn't trying to be a weight bully, he was trying to get a big fight vs A big name like Crawford or Spence. Why do you think SPENCE drained himself for? To make the big fight vs Crawford. Weight bully has nothing to do with Skills and punching power. Look at Haney, no power at all and he was a weight bully at 135.

[ShoulderRoll]

Ok but that doesn’t change the fact the likelihood of either being true is the same. So for you to dismiss it is just ignorant. There is a link between PED use and that, so it’s more than possible that is the reason.

I never said he doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. Somebody said it could be PED use which is absolutely could. You dismissed it as if it couldn’t be the case when it absolutely could be the case.

What? Give me one example of Ngannou’s past that justifies not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Secondly, when did Ngannou’s lawyer accuse him of being on PED’s? That’s the first I’ve heard of it. And, even if that were true, that’s nothing more than an accusation.

Thirdly, he completed a USADA program for UFC 260 and passed all his tests so to you that deems someone clean. Unless you are saying USADA is not a legit testing procedure?

I’m not saying that rhabdo can’t be due to PEDs. I’m saying we have no past history or reason to question Ortiz’s character and assume he got it from PEDs, when he could have gotten it just from being dehydrated and overtraining. Which he does have a past history of.

[IronDanHamza]

I’m not saying that rhabdo can’t be due to PEDs. I’m saying we have no past history or reason to question Ortiz’s character and assume he got it from PEDs, when he could have gotten it just from being dehydrated and overtraining. Which he does have a past history of.

You suggested it when you dismissed it and that doesn’t change the fact that the poster you quoted had a point, that it could easily be down to PED use.

Why did you ignore the Ngannou part?

Give me one example of Ngannou’s past that justifies not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Secondly, when did Ngannou’s lawyer accuse him of being on PED’s? That’s the first I’ve heard of it. And, even if that were true, that’s nothing more than an accusation.

Thirdly, he completed a USADA program for UFC 260 and passed all his tests so to you that deems someone clean. Unless you are saying USADA is not a legit testing procedure?

[Madison Boxing]

He has a very dangerous health condition that he had to get under control. Who knows if his kidneys are ever going to be the same again.

Fair enough mate my bad... am a casual fan now really boxing wise just remember him being on the fringes for a while same as ennis

[Boro]

Can you give other examples of fighters getting that being a weight bully?

As well as a source to him having it cause of PED's? Cause they're are a bunch of fighters on steroids back then and now that didn't have what ortiz has.


Also the fvkcing irony of you calling out a fighter for being on steroids when the guy in your sig failed tests

Rhabdo isn't common why would I have examples of people getting it, it's 1/26000 chance of getting it...

At best you'll have idiots who confuse DOMS for Rhabdo.

I don't know how severe of a weight bully Ortiz is nor do I know how aggressively he works out due to the potential recovery and stamina benefits of PEDs but it's been insinuated by all of his people he's extremely OTT in the gym and a "gym rat".

He could just have it from severe dehydration and weight cut and all the complications like shouleroll pointed out, unlikely but still.

And as I said to shouleroll Rhabdo especially Exercise-induced Rhabdo is brought about by jumping into an exercise programs too fast or you're unaccustomed to physical exercise, if he's as dedicated to the gym as implied by his team that ain't happening.

He not only wouldn't be doing a severe cut, he would know how to keep himself hydrated whilst training if he lived in gym like they claim.

I don't care about people failing tests, I care about them getting adequate punishments for failing said tests, most fighters are juicing let's be clear on that, some just manage their cycles better than others or have enough money to have the new to market stuff...

[Boro]

He wasn't trying to be a weight bully, he was trying to get a big fight vs A big name like Crawford or Spence. Why do you think SPENCE drained himself for? To make the big fight vs Crawford. Weight bully has nothing to do with Skills and punching power. Look at Haney, no power at all and he was a weight bully at 135.

There is a big difference none of the fighters you've name have a claim to be consummate professionals when it comes to their weight and gym habits, the same can not be said of Vergil allegedly.

All you ever hear about the guy is how he's "constantly in the gym, he's a workhorse, couldn't ask for a more dedicated kid" blah blah blah...

Now either his team are all liars and he isn't always in the gym and only goes hard when it's camp times.

Which could cause Exercise-induced Rhabdo because he goes far too hard shedding all the excess timber but let's also not forget steroids aren't just for building muscle or shedding weight.

They also allow you to recover quicker, pushing yourself further in training and sparring allowing the aforementioned workhorse to keep going in circumstances he otherwise wouldn't be able to, which could also cause the "Exercise-induced Rhabdo".

And that's not accounting for the PEDs being a risk factor themselves due to the multiple risk factors relating to the kidneys, heart issues, dehydration which directly correlate with Rhabdo, hence why they often question anabolic usage when they examine you for Rhabdo.

[ShoulderRoll]

You suggested it when you dismissed it and that doesn’t change the fact that the poster you quoted had a point, that it could easily be down to PED use.

Why did you ignore the Ngannou part?

Give me one example of Ngannou’s past that justifies not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Secondly, when did Ngannou’s lawyer accuse him of being on PED’s? That’s the first I’ve heard of it. And, even if that were true, that’s nothing more than an accusation.

Thirdly, he completed a USADA program for UFC 260 and passed all his tests so to you that deems someone clean. Unless you are saying USADA is not a legit testing procedure?

I don’t dismiss rhabdo as being possibly from PED use. I am just against accusing Ortiz of it when he doesn’t have anything in his history to suggest it, when there are other possible explanations based on his known tendencies and health issues.

I misspoke about Ngannou, he was accused by someone else of using steroids for UFC 260 not by his lawyer. It’s been a while and I conflated several different things from an old argument had at that time.