Comments Thread For: Hearn: I Cannot Believe How Highly People Rate Wilder, He's Never Beaten a Top-Five Foe

[chicken-]

I'm not arguing Ortiz isn't credible because clearly he's a talented heavyweight but I was questioning the reasoning behind him being a more impressive win over Povetkin or Klitschko. Is Ortiz in the same league as Klitschko or Usyk? Absolutely not in my opinion.

Klitchko was 41 and inactive when he fought Joshua, and nearly KO'd him. Klitchko was exhausted and got TKO'd. Povetkin's only credible fight after that was beating Whyte, who stinks, then he looked 80 years old in the rematch and got KO'd by Whyte, who stinks.

Ortiz on the other hand gave Ruiz all he could handle, the guy who ragdolled AJ around the ring.

[Apollo7]

The average person doesn't know much about boxing and will easily buy into the hype.

[unknowledgeablepugilist]

Klitchko was 41 and inactive when he fought Joshua, and nearly KO'd him. Klitchko was exhausted and got TKO'd. Povetkin's only credible fight after that was beating Whyte, who stinks, then he looked 80 years old in the rematch and got KO'd by Whyte, who stinks.

Ortiz on the other hand gave Ruiz all he could handle, the guy who ragdolled AJ around the ring.

I've already been over this but anything applicable to Klitschko or Povetkin could easily be applied to Ortiz. Just be consistent instead of spouting hypocritical talking points.

[chicken-]

I've already been over this but anything applicable to Klitschko or Povetkin could easily be applied to Ortiz. Just be consistent instead of spouting hypocritical talking points.

Ortiz went on to beat Charles Martin and give Ruiz a very tough fight and went the distance even after getting dropped multiple times...3 years after fighting Wilder. Klitchko retired, and Povetkin looked 83 years old in his last fight where he got knocked out and retired. I don't put Ortiz and Povetkin on the same level, certainly not at that point of their careers.

[chicken-]

Ortiz in fifteen months had one fight against a journeyman lasting two rounds; he was 38 and had failed a drug test for blood pressure medication. On the other hand, Klitschko had been out the ring fifteen months due to Fury's shenanigans. However, at 41 was his age and physical condition any worse than a fighter who needed blood pressure medication at 38? I doubt it. Furthermore, Klitschko was the dominant heavyweight of the last decade at that point. Ortiz has never reached the heights of Klitschko as professional or amateur. Did Klitschko retire after the Joshua performance? Yes but why is that a negative? Unlike Ortiz there was nothing left for Klitschko to achieve; he's been a dominant unified champion.

I've stated this previously but Povetkin won gold at every major amateur competition. Ortiz isn't a decorated amateur due to the fact he's career mainly consistented of him being an alternate. However, Ortiz did win gold at the Pan-American games, that's the highlight of his amateur career.

Professionally, Povetkin again accomplished more than Ortiz yet you think Ortiz is somehow superior? Because he was competitive with Andy Ruiz? Guess what Chris Arreola was competitive with Andy Ruiz but that doesn't make him a better fighter than Povetkin. Ortiz beat Charles Martin, which is a good win but that win isn't greater than knocking out Whyte. Povetkin did look terrible against Whyte in the rematch could be due to age or COVID but it has no bearings on AJ win over him or Ortiz.

People can imagine or perform any sort of mental gymnastics they desire but the tangible evidence shows Ortiz as Amateur or Professional never accomplished what Povetkin or Klitschko has. Furthermore, at the exact stage Wilder fought Ortiz and AJ fought Klitschko or Povetkin there was no real difference in age or physical decline. Ortiz is a great fighter but to argue he's greater or more impressive win over proven commodities is based more in what could be then what is.

You're going all the way back to amateurs to try to defend your stance when I'm simply comparing the fighters when the fights took place. I would put money on Ortiz and Arreola both beating Povetkin quite easily with the performances they put up vs Ruiz. Povetkin looked like he could barely walk in his last fight.

[unknowledgeablepugilist]

You're going all the way back to amateurs to try to defend your stance when I'm simply comparing the fighters when the fights took place. I would put money on Ortiz and Arreola both beating Povetkin quite easily with the performances they put up vs Ruiz. Povetkin looked like he could barely walk in his last fight.

No, I'm simply pointing to facts not imagining scenarios in my head. Povetkin looked horrendous in his last fight? Absolutely, I imagine that's why it was his last fight. Now it could be due to COVID or age but that version of Povetkin wasn't the version who stopped Whyte, drew with Hunter or faced AJ so what relevancy does it have? When Povetkin fought AJ, he was a top ten heavyweight.

Where was Arreola? The guy couldn't even beat Fred Kassi. Ortiz a great technician but his accomplishments don't live up to his reputation. If you want say the win Wilder had over Ortiz was equal to AJ's win over Povetkin absolutely fine. However, to argue Ortiz was a superior victory based off longevity is disingenuous. I hate to break it to you but Ortiz at his age is preforming better than Joe Louis but it don't make him better.

AJ fought a Povetkin who hadn't lost in five years with the sole loss coming against the most dominant heavyweight of his era. Now even if you take the version of Povetkin which lost he'll still outperform Ortiz & Arreola. Simply because Povetkin went on to beat a top ten ranked fighter win Whyte and draw with Hunter. Arreola ain't beaten anybody of relevancy and Ortiz claim to fame is beating Charles Martin a gate keeper. So you're not looking at when the fights took place or even immediately after what you're doing is cherry picking imaginary scenarios because you have nothing of value to add.

[Toffee]

Ortiz went on to beat Charles Martin and give Ruiz a very tough fight and went the distance even after getting dropped multiple times...3 years after fighting Wilder. Klitchko retired, and Povetkin looked 83 years old in his last fight where he got knocked out and retired. I don't put Ortiz and Povetkin on the same level, certainly not at that point of their careers.

I don't think you can seriously equate Ortiz and Klitschko. Maybe Ortiz and Povetkin... maybe.

Joshua's best win (Klitschko) is comfortably the best win either he or Wilder have mustered. It was 1 v 2 in the division!

The level drops pretty significantly for both fighters after that, but Joshua definitely has more depth at the 'contender' level.

I think there's a good argument that Stiverne (first time) is actually Wilder's best win.

[chicken-]

No, I'm simply pointing to facts not imagining scenarios in my head. Povetkin looked horrendous in his last fight? Absolutely, I imagine that's why it was his last fight. Now it could be due to COVID or age but that version of Povetkin wasn't the version who stopped Whyte, drew with Hunter or faced AJ so what relevancy does it have? When Povetkin fought AJ, he was a top ten heavyweight.

Where was Arreola? The guy couldn't even beat Fred Kassi. Ortiz a great technician but his accomplishments don't live up to his reputation. If you want say the win Wilder had over Ortiz was equal to AJ's win over Povetkin absolutely fine. However, to argue Ortiz was a superior victory based off longevity is disingenuous. I hate to break it to you but Ortiz at his age is preforming better than Joe Louis but it don't make him better.

AJ fought a Povetkin who hadn't lost in five years with the sole loss coming against the most dominant heavyweight of his era. Now even if you take the version of Povetkin which lost he'll still outperform Ortiz & Arreola. Simply because Povetkin went on to beat a top ten ranked fighter win Whyte and draw with Hunter. Arreola ain't beaten anybody of relevancy and Ortiz claim to fame is beating Charles Martin a gate keeper. So you're not looking at when the fights took place or even immediately after what you're doing is cherry picking imaginary scenarios because you have nothing of value to add.

Povetkin beat the likes of David Price and Christian Hammer to be top 10, who cares? He beat Hughie Fury, who cares? He beat Whyte, who is a drug cheat and a fat bum, who cares? Arreola was another fighter who gave Ruiz a good competitive fight even though he's old and way past his prime. At the end of the day, I put more stock into those fighter's performances against Ruiz who was in much better shape for both of those fights than he was in the AJ rematch. At the same time, I use those 2 fights as a reason why Ruiz should shut his damn mouth and stop pretending like he deserves to make $20 million for a fight.

[unknowledgeablepugilist]

Povetkin beat the likes of David Price and Christian Hammer to be top 10, who cares? He beat Hughie Fury, who cares? He beat Whyte, who is a drug cheat and a fat bum, who cares? Arreola was another fighter who gave Ruiz a good competitive fight even though he's old and way past his prime. At the end of the day, I put more stock into those fighter's performances against Ruiz who was in much better shape for both of those fights than he was in the AJ rematch. At the same time, I use those 2 fights as a reason why Ruiz should shut his damn mouth and stop pretending like he deserves to make $20 million for a fight.

Wait a second, Whyte is a fat drug cheat bum but you're defending Ortiz a drug cheat who's hardly an Adonis himself. You're then criticizing Povetkin's competition even though Ortiz and Arreola haven't beaten any top contenders themselves. In fact all you're basing you're opinion on is lossing efforts against an inactive Ruiz who's weight loss hasn't actually improved his performances. Let's be real you're talking rubbish atleast be consistent it's the bare minimum. Povetkin was past his prime when he beat an actual top ten contender and got a draw against another.

[Silence]

If you don't rate Wilder, why did you let AJ to fight even lower fighters?

AJ should beat Wilder easily in your ***in logic.