Comments Thread For: Hearn: I Cannot Believe How Highly People Rate Wilder, He's Never Beaten a Top-Five Foe

[unknowledgeablepugilist]

Ortiz was a better win that klitsko and pivetkin dude sorry. Ortiz was old when he fought wilder but the Ortiz that would have sparked AJ. Also ortiz was a pretty good amatuer. I agree his durability is questionable at this point but no more than AJs. I’d actually love to see that fight

Ortiz was a pretty good amateur? Based off what the Gold medal at the Pan-American games, outside of that Ortiz was a domestic amateur heavyweight. Povetkin European, World, and Olympic amateur champion while Klitschko has an Olympic gold medal. Let's be real all the tangible evidence shows Ortiz isn't a more impressive win than Povetkin and Klitschko. I honestly think you're attempting to push a narrative.

Finally, I think AJ durability is superior to Ortiz at this point just because Ortiz is getting dropped by shots, which he was taking earlier on his career.

[kafkod]

C'mon dude, you had a good point. No need to exaggerate. Wilder's never finished a fight unconscious either. Not beating the count and not being awake are very different. Dude's supporting himself on his elbows and **** at least.

That said, Joshua's on his feet isn't he? No need to exaggerate.

No need to exaggerate ... in a Joshua vs Wilder thread?

You've been away to long mate!

[OldTerry]

No need to exaggerate ... in a Joshua vs Wilder thread?

You've been away to long mate!

Point was that Joshua was on his feet and chose to quit against Ruiz rather than go out on his shield. No lie on my part. You should accept the truth, there is less confusion that way.

cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance

[ˈkäɡnədiv ˈdisənəns]
NOUN
PSYCHOLOGY

1. the state of having inconsistent or conflicting thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

[kafkod]

Point was that Joshua was on his feet and chose to quit against Ruiz rather than go out on his shield. No lie on my part. You should accept the truth, there is less confusion that way.

cog·ni·tive dis·so·nance

[ˈkäɡnədiv ˈdisənəns]
NOUN
PSYCHOLOGY

1. the state of having inconsistent or conflicting thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change.

Serious question ... have you ever watched the end of that fight, or are you just reacting to things you've seen and heard other people saying about it?

If you have watched it, explain to me exactly when you think you saw AJ choosing to quit?

Was it before or after he beat the count and clearly answered "yes" when the ref asked him, "Do you want to box?"

[LAchargers373]

Ortiz was a pretty good amateur? Based off what the Gold medal at the Pan-American games, outside of that Ortiz was a domestic amateur heavyweight. Povetkin European, World, and Olympic amateur champion while Klitschko has an Olympic gold medal. Let's be real all the tangible evidence shows Ortiz isn't a more impressive win than Povetkin and Klitschko. I honestly think you're attempting to push a narrative.

Finally, I think AJ durability is superior to Ortiz at this point just because Ortiz is getting dropped by shots, which he was taking earlier on his career.

meh it’s debateable. What narrative is it you think I’m trying to push? I just said Ortiz was a pretty good amatuer I didn’t say he was great or unbelievable or anything but he was good 343-19 record. He didn’t get a chance to become a pro till late in his life cause he was Cuban. All tangible evidence points to AJs win over an inactive semi retired hadn’t boxed in 2 year’s retirement fight klitchko to have been severely overated. Evidenced by AJ getting chinned against Ruiz jr. Same ruiz Jr who recently fought Ortiz and dropped him 3x like 3 years after he tkod AJ. So a better more in shape ruiz couldn’t tko an older Ortiz but chinned a prime AJ yet u think AJ has superior durability? That’s an interesting view. And povetkin hadn’t been relevant in YEARS when he fought AJ like u can’t be serious? Kind of feels like you’re the one trying to push a narrative lmao

[OldTerry]

Serious question ... have you ever watched the end of that fight, or are you just reacting to things you've seen and heard other people saying about it?

If you have watched it, explain to me exactly when you think you saw AJ choosing to quit?

Was it before or after he beat the count and clearly answered "yes" when the ref asked him, "Do you want to box?"

Okay, all kidding aside. I saw the fight and what I saw was a very confused and disconcerted AJ. It appeared that he didn't know what he wanted to, but he was definitely on the verge of taking some serious damage, so the fight stoppage was good. Whether or not he wanted to continue the fight is questionable. He may have nodded his head, but I believe it was out of confusion and didn't actually mean "yes I do." If the referee had asked "do you want me to stop the fight, he would have nodded his head at that as well. I think we would agree that the damage he sustained in the fight has haunted him psychologically from that point forward. That is the real reason he will lose to Wilder.

[kafkod]

Okay, all kidding aside. I saw the fight and what I saw was a very confused and disconcerted AJ. It appeared that he didn't know what he wanted to, but he was definitely on the verge of taking some serious damage, so the fight stoppage was good. Whether or not he wanted to continue the fight is questionable. He may have nodded his head, but I believe it was out of confusion and didn't actually mean "yes I do." If the referee had asked "do you want me to stop the fight, he would have nodded his head at that as well. I think we would agree that the damage he sustained in the fight has haunted him psychologically from that point forward. That is the real reason he will lose to Wilder.

But the ref didn't ask him, "Do you want me to stop the fight?" He asked him, "Do you want to box?" And he answered "Yes"

That's the reality what happened. You can't call a guy a quitter because of what you believe would have happened if reality had been different.

Apart from that, I agree with what you say here.

[LAchargers373]

An impressive amateur record with only one marquee tournament medal, while the rest of Ortiz amateur career consists of him being part of the second or third team. The vast majority of Ortiz amateur success comes domestically at the Cuban nationals not international tournaments like Povetkin and Klitschko.

Furthermore, Klitschko issues were due to Fury failing drug tests causing him to miss out on the rematch. However, how can you question Klitschko physical condition when Ortiz was taking blood pressure medication? Have some consistency. Furthermore, if the Klitschko win aged poorly for AJ, why hasn't Ortiz win aged poorly for Wilder? Ortiz still hasn't accomplished anything outside of being second best just like the majority of his amateur career.

As for Povetkin, explain how relevancy indicates ability? Because Ortiz relevancy is just as questionable as Povetkin. Ortiz has never been a marquee name nor has he reached the pinnacle of the division. Unlike Ortiz, Povetkin was able to win a marquee fight after losing to AJ plus he was able to draw with Hunter. Povetkin before and after losing showed more credibility than Ortiz as a heavyweight contender.

The issue around durability comes down to AJ always having a shaky chin while Ortiz didn't until after the Wilder fight's, this indicates physical decline. Ortiz durability will continue to worsen, which we have seen against Martin and Ruiz. AJ on the other hands ability to take a punch although questionable isn't in visible decline. Prior to the Wilder fights, I'd say Ortiz was more durable but it's clear he's on the downturn. Looking at a singular common opponent doesn't change the reality does it? Look how both men preformed against Charles Martin.

Finally, you mentioned tangible evidence about wins being overrated but where is it? Your arguments narrative about Ortiz being an impressive win over Povetkin and Klitschko is built on shaky ground. I said it before but Ortiz has never accomplished what those men did as either s professional or amateur. To add to it, Ortiz age and physical condition is just as questionable as those men.

Fair arguments. I think ur underselling Ortiz tho. He’d put AJ into another planet imo. As I said I’d love to see the fight at this point t in both their careers would be a great measuring stick because it’s hard to gauge them rn tbh hard to gauge Ortiz at any time like u kind of are saying

[OldTerry]

But the ref didn't ask him, "Do you want me to stop the fight?" He asked him, "Do you want to box?" And he answered "Yes"

That's the reality what happened. You can't call a guy a quitter because of what you believe would have happened if reality had been different.

Apart from that, I agree with what you say here.

No, calling him a quitter is not accurate (my bad).

[SN!PER]

AJ looks like he's punching underwater with those big bodybuilder muscles.

Eddie tried to play the waiting game to age Deontay as much as possible, but it won't matter.

Even at 40 years old, The Bronze Bomber will drop AJ to the canvas and finish him off in a few rounds.