Mayweather vs Sugar Ray Leonard??

[-Lowkey-]

Lets see Mayweather beat who at Welter.

Baldomir... not a top 20 fighter
Judah .... has been beaten by every fighter worth a dammm
DLH..... 36 has lost repeatedly before fighting Mayweather.
Hatton....Never ever looked good at welter, almost as got ko'd at welter the fight before. Barely won.
Marquez....never ever fought above 135....

So help me understand who has Mayweather beaten to even justify this ****** question.

Now just to address it. Mayweather is a defensive fighter, that uses his speed advantages, reach, and in the case of Marquez size advantage, and in the case of DLH , his stamina to outlast, in the case of Judah, smarts and toughness...

What advantage would he have offensively vs Leoanrd. 0.

Leonard is just as fast, throws better combinations, has the size and reach, was in just as good as shape, is just as smart (usually), hits harder, has fought much much much better competition (hearns, hagler, beneitz, Duran). Mayweather has fought no one near this level of competition at Welter.

Mayweather keeps trying to say duran moved up to beat leoanrd but he gets a hard time for fighting marquez.

Lets set the record straight. Duran is 25 times the fighter Marquez could dream of being. Marquez was clearly over sized vs a smaller Mayweather at welter. Meaning he is not capable of fighting effectivly at Welter. Duran not only was a good welter, but he went on to win titles at jr middle, and middle weight, after his wars with Ray.
Duran did not move up to fight ray. Duran moved up 2-3 years prior, and had 8 fights at welter before fighting ray, including a fight vs a top welter Carlos palomino. Thus Duran was a solid Welter before fighting Ray. No it was not his natural weight, but he had gotten accustomed to welter before fighting Ray, marquez was not even a solid 135 pounder, and then he had to move up an additional 2 weight classes to face Mayweather.

If Sugar Ray faced Mayweather, he would be charged for ******ation.

good post green k

[wpink1]

Dude give it a rest and agree to disagree. You think SRL beats Floyd inside 5 rounds and makes his corner stop the fight and wave in the towel even though Ray didn't KO Akub Kalule, Larry Bonds, Benitez inside 5 rounds.

SRL is one of the most overated boxers in history.

Floyd is the more skilled fighter PERIOD.

Your weak excuse of Ray was layed off when he fought Kevin Howard in 1984. Floyd was off 2 years also and faced a better opponent in Marquez and won with ease.

Fact is as Floyd's FATHER said in 1999 about SRL. He said Ray's defense was his legs. My son can defend close range and still make you miss. Archie Moore. James Toney style. OLD SCHOOL

WPINK...Like u said lets stick to facts

1. Duran - Fact is 1980s rematch Ray said i wanted to fight him within 6 months because i knew he got out of shape between fights.

2 Hagler - Ray was in the crowd for the Mugabi fight. He said exactly. I was counting on Haglers lost speed. Meaning deterioation.

To me that sounds like a dude trying to get glory the CHEAP WAY

Fact is Duran in shape MOTIVATED put the whippin on Ray Leonard and Hagler despite much slower still won that fight. I suggest you watch Hagler from the early 80s and look at the snap on his shots and speed. BIG DIFFERENCE. That's why Ray ducked him and waited. Ray fooled you, but not me.

He had 1 big victory and thats Hearns. so i guess Barkley is all time great also cause he knocked Tommy out also.

Idiot..Still no answer, huh. I undestand your still looking for the key wins vs peak, great and natural welterweights...... It will be a while, CUZ THEY AINT THERE.

Your wrong about my prognosis about Ray vs floyd. First off floyd would not sign a fight vs Ray, and the Las Vegas judicial system would incarcerate Leonard for ******ation and they should incarcerate Floyd for false impersonation of a welterweight champion, as does not welterweight fight hmmm welterweights....

In fact what other fighter in history has done what mayweather has done, idiot. What fighter has said they are soooo great,(self proclamation) beat the weakest element for a title, refusee to face to face to accept 8mil and fight for the title vs a solid welter and fight and defend a divisions belts, but NOT FIGHT ACTUAL challengers at that weighht class. Who Idiot?

You can say SRL is overrated all you want. He would smack the **** out of you if you said it tohis face. Hell I would. You can sit home and tallk all this ignorant **** you want..Only thing youir doing is honestly trying to stir up **** and I am a idiot to for falling into this dumm ass debate...

Hell it is sooo easy to destroy you on here... just like

You say floyd sr, said Rays defense was in his legs...Hmmmm peep game here idiot....
1. Since we are talking about Ray during his primme,,then SO THE **** WHAT. Roy had bad technique too, but so what during their prime whatever they depended on it worked. Just like Michael jordan, who it really pained me to see you now try to offer your two cents on bball, just what we need a nerd who probably never played nor ever boxed, telling us about a sport.....kudos....But since you brought it up...MJ early on scored a lot because of athleticm, was not a great shooter, but a great scorer with a explosive first step. So your saying Dirk should be ranked ahead of jordan because he can shoot better, and jordan relied on his legs early...No you ****ing ******, it is the skill set they were blessed with and how they implemented it.....

2. If floyd sr was such a ****in genius about Ray leonard and his lack of true defense, why didn the exploit it when he faced ray personally and got his ass truly handed to him EACH ROUND....in a fight your dumb ass said Ray struggled with him....Lets see he was more worthy of a Welterweight championship fight (if he ever got it) than Jmm...Now wasnt he based on Jmm never fougght at welter and never fought at 140 and only had 2 at 135...but somehow JMM got a fight vs Mayweather. Poinnt is idiot... Ray whipped floyd sr worse than floyd jr whipped Jmm, now didnthe. And we are listening to you and your guys who **** your sucking's daddy.

WTF.

If ray had only 1big win and we are comparing...and since duran was peak, hagler was only 32, benetiz peak, hearns peak, kalule peak, lalond peak, then guess what all of these are better champions than who mayweather beat, so i guess that means I will answer the question your scared to. The answer to how many quality great, natural peak welter MAYWEATHER beat is hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 0.

[Chr0nic]

can he avoid those lightnin-like punches is the question
if he cant react in time, his defence will be useless

[jrosales13]

Not really, but this Rayleonard82 moron has Mayweather's **** stuck in his throat, all the way up to his ballsack, and Wpink has been trying to get the ******, cumguzzling ***** to spit it out.....unsuccessfully, I'm afraid.

LMAO... The dillusional nuthuggers in this forums are annoying sometimes.

[StarshipTrooper]

LOL and very funny stuff there. Dr J can't even dribble with his left hand just like Jerry West. Many of the players from the 70s and early 80s dribble with 1 hand and go between there legs for change of direction. No cross over moves to get change of direction. He was great for his era and would actually be solid in this era cause of his athletic ability but small forwards today are just as athletic with better ball handling skills.

Please don't compare Dr to Kobe when his ball handling skills were low budget. Kobe is a better ball handler, post up player, mid range shooter, 3 point shooter, DEFENDER.

Moses was 6-10 like 260. Shaq 7-1 320 and more athletic.

2001 Lakers 4-1 over 83 76ers and any 80s Lakers team

Has anyone told you you're pathetically ignorant? You're a fan-boi and nothing more: You've so far demonstrated that you have 0 knowledge of both boxing AND basketball.

Poet

[wpink1]

Ray 82...debating with you is like debating with a 2 year old..they are talking but you you dont know what the F they are talking about cuz it makes no sense..No boxing sense.Only hugging Mayweather nuts sense...

Generally you use norms when you debate so that back and forth has somoe mutually accepted common ground in which to agree or disagree. However when you say a fighter that has not Beaten not 3 not 4 not 2, but not beaten one single peak, great natural welterweight, or even very good welterweight, and you try to justify that this fighter has the ability to beat a all time top 2 welter.. Then that just shows your ignorance. You also confound things by justifying your position about Ray's defense issues by saying Floyd Sr said when his legs go so does his defense. Do you realize how ****in ****** that statement is on several fronts. First off how can a guy who got his ass handed to him by the guy they are discussing have any room to talk and even more who would be the dumbass to listen...Hmmm YOU Ray 82...Second..so the f what when his legs leave, we are talking about prime Ray, his legs were there...

Just like we can assume that Michael Jordan would be able to make a wide open dunk because it is widely accepted by EVIDENCE OF ACTUAL MADE DUNKS, that we have seen that he can do this...Thus is is feasible to argue about his dunking ability. Not his shooting from half court, as we have not seen this...No matter how good his is..would you with your dumb ass bet he could hit 5 in row from half court,...the greatest bball ever. You probably sooo, but most other would have to see it first...Thus most would not bet on him to do it.

This is what your dumb ass is on here tryind sell. A figher who has NEVER (i GAVE YOUR MANY MANY MANY CHANCES TO PRODUCE A TOP WELTERWEIGHT WHO WAS A NATURAL WELTER, PEAK AND GREAT) BEATEN a top welter...somehow is just ahead of proving it vs the likes of Cotto, Williams, Mosley who would whip his ass, Clottery, Berto, margerito..Somehow Mayweather is jumped ahead of showing what he can do vs s true welter and in your eyes he can beat Leoanrd. Thus I can say that Ray leonard can beat Tyson. Hell based on your analogy, Douglass was able to outbo him, even thought ray does not have the power to hurt him ray would win a points decision..Based on your anaolog...No ray never beat a top heavyweight, but neither has mayweather beaten a top welter.

Finally. You keep on saying this speed ****. 2 things. You know the reason why mayweather and company are not jumping into these fights with bigger men, because all that **** he does, will not keep a true welter off of him, and in boxing you have to get respect. Sort of like how Ray did not respect mayweather sr. and just walked him down. Sure every agrees mayweather is a great fighter and a great defensive fighter, HE DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER, OR THE PUNCH VOLUME OR SIZE TO KEEP A TOP WELTER LIKE LEOANRD, HEARNS, DURAN, Williams, Margerito, Mosley off of him. He knows this, that is why he is not fighting them. No fault of his, as he did move up from 130, but our arguement is not pound per pound. Our discussion is floyd at Welter..

Do you know what effective speed means in boxing. Probably not, idiot. It means what will be relevant in that fight. Roy jones had effective speed vs trinidad, but not vs Tarver or calzaghe. Mosley had it vs everyone but not vs Forrest, Hell Mayweather did not have it vs Dlh until round 8..Hmm i wonder why..Leonard did not have it vs Hearns.. Is there a common denominator starting to show to you.. It is called a jab, idiot. Forrest jab, neutralized the shorter less reach Mosley and thus his speed, the speed demon he was and his punches were faster than Mayweathers with more power at welter. Mosley could do nothing. But Mosley fought a top big welter, unlike Mayweather. Hearns 78 inch reach, 6'1 reach and speed neutralized Leoanrd speed. However leonard had other skills, that allowed him to stop hearns. Dlh jab was controlling the fight vs mayweather. he was walkling Maywether down, had him on the ropes,,jabbing him straight back, and Mayweathr could do nothing. Then he tired out, and maywether started putting his punches together. Jab.

Now Norms...Right..You wonder why i started with norms. Idiot. If DLH jab was that effective vs Mosley and he has less reach and less speed than leoanrd and less power in his jab than leonard....and he was 36 vs a peak mayweather...What in the hell do you think a bigger stronger, faster, fighter with a left hook and and a right, and with stamina is going to do to Mayweather.. You think mayweather is going to tire out Leonard..The same leonard who went 15 rounds back to back action with Duran, stopped hearns in 14, stopped benetiz in 15,,,,Also mayweather fights the same style as his daddy, defensive shoulder roll on his back foot. Guess what that means,,,his reach is that much shorter...idiot. He would only be relying on countering. Ray would walk him down, methodically, land at will to the body, and left hooks upstairs...stragiht rights and beg..LITERALLY BEG mayweather to try to exchange with him. It would be worse than the whipping he gave his daddy. Only thing mayweather would try to do is counter. You think he could hurt Leoanrd...Really?

Also Norris beat a 34 year old shot *******d, retired for 6 out of 9 years leoanrd...But also norris is a much stronger, faster 3 punch combination fighter than Maywether..Also norris would slaughter a peak mayweather, while your at it.

[RayLeonard82]

Idiot..Still no answer, huh. I undestand your still looking for the key wins vs peak, great and natural welterweights...... It will be a while, CUZ THEY AINT THERE.

Your wrong about my prognosis about Ray vs floyd. First off floyd would not sign a fight vs Ray, and the Las Vegas judicial system would incarcerate Leonard for ******ation and they should incarcerate Floyd for false impersonation of a welterweight champion, as does not welterweight fight hmmm welterweights....

In fact what other fighter in history has done what mayweather has done, idiot. What fighter has said they are soooo great,(self proclamation) beat the weakest element for a title, refusee to face to face to accept 8mil and fight for the title vs a solid welter and fight and defend a divisions belts, but NOT FIGHT ACTUAL challengers at that weighht class. Who Idiot?

You can say SRL is overrated all you want. He would smack the **** out of you if you said it tohis face. Hell I would. You can sit home and tallk all this ignorant **** you want..Only thing youir doing is honestly trying to stir up **** and I am a idiot to for falling into this dumm ass debate...

Hell it is sooo easy to destroy you on here... just like

You say floyd sr, said Rays defense was in his legs...Hmmmm peep game here idiot....
1. Since we are talking about Ray during his primme,,then SO THE **** WHAT. Roy had bad technique too, but so what during their prime whatever they depended on it worked. Just like Michael jordan, who it really pained me to see you now try to offer your two cents on bball, just what we need a nerd who probably never played nor ever boxed, telling us about a sport.....kudos....But since you brought it up...MJ early on scored a lot because of athleticm, was not a great shooter, but a great scorer with a explosive first step. So your saying Dirk should be ranked ahead of jordan because he can shoot better, and jordan relied on his legs early...No you ****ing ******, it is the skill set they were blessed with and how they implemented it.....

2. If floyd sr was such a ****in genius about Ray leonard and his lack of true defense, why didn the exploit it when he faced ray personally and got his ass truly handed to him EACH ROUND....in a fight your dumb ass said Ray struggled with him....Lets see he was more worthy of a Welterweight championship fight (if he ever got it) than Jmm...Now wasnt he based on Jmm never fougght at welter and never fought at 140 and only had 2 at 135...but somehow JMM got a fight vs Mayweather. Poinnt is idiot... Ray whipped floyd sr worse than floyd jr whipped Jmm, now didnthe. And we are listening to you and your guys who **** your sucking's daddy.

WTF.

If ray had only 1big win and we are comparing...and since duran was peak, hagler was only 32, benetiz peak, hearns peak, kalule peak, lalond peak, then guess what all of these are better champions than who mayweather beat, so i guess that means I will answer the question your scared to. The answer to how many quality great, natural peak welter MAYWEATHER beat is hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 0.

Did you just include Ayub (slow) Kalule as a big win? Your kidding right. So i guess we might as well include Donny Lalonde also. Ray''s cheap way to 2 titles and you know it was cheap. 168 and 175 pound title in 1 night and all you got to beat is Lalonde. Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum would have been less titles but more credibility.

Wilfred Benitez - Thats the same as Floyd knocking out Hatton and destroying Marques. Both were pound for pound top fighters at the time.

Stop putting words in my mouth and don't bring up basketball cause you nothing about basketball. MJ and Kobe are not just athletic but also fundamentally sound to go with that athletic a ability. I said Dr J cant dribble with his left and his ball handling was not very good. MJ and Kobe both have excellent ball handling skills with a variety of moves from the PINCH POST..Both mastered the art of the Mid-Range jumper. I have no idea where you the info i said MJ was only athletic ability. He's one of the most fundamentally sound players in NBA history.

Back to overated SRL.

Duran - Duran dominated him when he was in shape. 2nd fight is to much controversy. Usually when a fighters quits there getting busted up like Oscar vs Manny last year. Ray was only up 4 rounds to 3 and was hardly dominating. I guess put that name on Ray's resume even though it was CHEAP. If i was Ray i wouldn't even want credit for this win. Running around the ring with very little punching and Duran quits for no reason. I judge this rivalry from the 1st fight when Duran was hungry and in shape........Roberto Duran kicked SRL ass moving up in weight

Hagler - Waited until he got old and admitted it.

[RayLeonard82]

Hardly a dominating performance or reason for Duran to quit. He had just hit Ray with a big right hand at 1:29 mark of this video. One of the most overated performances in boxing history. Ray was only up 4 rounds to 3. And this counts on his resume as one of his big victories.

[jrosales13]

Wilfred Benitez - Thats the same as Floyd knocking out Hatton and destroying Marques. Both were pound for pound top fighters at the time.

GTFOH with that statement. That is one of the dumbest statements that has been made on here. Benitez was a top 3 WW. Was Hatton top 3 WW? What about JMM was he top 3 WW? Benitez would of embarrassed Hatton and JMM at 147

[bojangles1987]

Did you just include Ayub (slow) Kalule as a big win? Your kidding right. So i guess we might as well include Donny Lalonde also. Ray''s cheap way to 2 titles and you know it was cheap. 168 and 175 pound title in 1 night and all you got to beat is Lalonde. Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum would have been less titles but more credibility.

Wilfred Benitez - Thats the same as Floyd knocking out Hatton and destroying Marques. Both were pound for pound top fighters at the time.

Stop putting words in my mouth and don't bring up basketball cause you nothing about basketball. MJ and Kobe are not just athletic but also fundamentally sound to go with that athletic a ability. I said Dr J cant dribble with his left and his ball handling was not very good. MJ and Kobe both have excellent ball handling skills with a variety of moves from the PINCH POST..Both mastered the art of the Mid-Range jumper. I have no idea where you the info i said MJ was only athletic ability. He's one of the most fundamentally sound players in NBA history.

Back to overated SRL.

Duran - Duran dominated him when he was in shape. 2nd fight is to much controversy. Usually when a fighters quits there getting busted up like Oscar vs Manny last year. Ray was only up 4 rounds to 3 and was hardly dominating. I guess put that name on Ray's resume even though it was CHEAP. If i was Ray i wouldn't even want credit for this win. Running around the ring with very little punching and Duran quits for no reason. I judge this rivalry from the 1st fight when Duran was hungry and in shape........Roberto Duran kicked SRL ass moving up in weight

Hagler - Waited until he got old and admitted it.

Duran did not dominate Leonard the first time around. It was a tremendous fight that Duran won by a close margin. Bottom line, in the rematch Leonard knew the circumstances, and he frustrated Duran to the point he didn't want to fight anymore.

Seriously, can you name one welterweight Floyd Mayweather Jr. has fought that gives you any basis for predicting a win for him over the second best welterweight ever? Or are you simply the biggest Ray Leonard hater ever? I thought I didn't like Leonard but damn, you have me beat by far.

And the point he was bringing up about MJ is that early in his career he relied a lot on his athleticism, so nitpicking by saying he couldn't shoot the three is irrelevant, just like you saying Leonard's defense relies on his legs so once his legs go he is in trouble is irrelevant since we are talking prime Leonard vs. Mayweather, so Ray's legs will be there.