Do I have a reasonable argument for having Floyd Mayweather Jr as the greatest fighter of all time?

[Roadblock]

Well well well, I said something about your boy Tyson Fury.

You don't know what the level of the fighters were that Robinson beat, nobody does here for sure.

All I know is this? During that era, boxing was the biggest sport in the world 'And one of very few Global sports at that time'.

Therefor the participation levels in boxing would been higher. A higher quality of athlete would of been forced into boxing.

Back before the 1960's, if you could have a fight or aspired to fight. There was only one sport which you could excel in and earn a living? Boxing. And it was not just about men who desired to fight? Boxing was a opportunity for every single working class man, a opportunity to survive 'Boxing at its roots is not a sport, I have never class it as a leisure activity'.

So from those societal facts, I actually think on average Robinson whether he was fighting at super elite level or B-C level fighters. The competition would of been high quality.

It is easy in 2022 to look back and discredit these fighters, or mock them. All I know is that a higher percentage of fighters where in condition.

These days even with all this sport science and so called advancement in training. You have heavyweights turning up out of condition.

And most of the fighters in the lower weight divisions are in a bad way, due to the culture of weight draining.

The reason why fighters where fighting in such high frequency was because, as I have explained? Boxing was a survival activity 'There was a big demand for fights to happen'. If you was not apart of Aristocracy, if you did not have great excess to education or some sort of well earning trade, but you had the courage to throw a punch in anger? Those men turned to boxing.

I have theorized that the quality of athlete in boxing has decreased 'The natural ability, attitude and genetics etc'.

Fighters these days can do nothing but train, and they still turn up out of condition.

I don't care how many drove T model Fords they are not competing with F1s , its very simple logic that everything and I mean everything in this world with technology and time has gotten faster stronger and more explosive with better efficiency, it baffles my mind what makes you think Boxing is exempt to that ?

The funny part of all this is the likes of Ennis could KO SRR and what would that do to history, a guy like Ennis as is in a time machine going back 50 yrs fighting the class he has been fighting could fight many times a year and KO all of them, what would 50 KO streak mean in this argument, SRR beat a truckload of very inferior fighter and Ennis could do the same, people get blinded by all the hype and nostalgia losing sight of the actual opposition. SRR was fighting guys with 7 wins and 30 loses in his 197th bout he fought this can twice, in the middle of his career he is fighting guys with 20 losses in 30 fights,, have you ever actually gone through Rays resume and counted the losses of his opponents., no elite top liner could get away with fighting so many cans today.

Its like a racehorse, the 1930s had a super horse in Phar Lap, and since then many would have beat Phar Lap by 10 lengths based solely on the time to run the same distance, this deal is in all sports because the technology has come so far, training and diet is so refined today it's a razer sharp edge measured in milliseconds.

[F l i c k e r]

Depends on what you define as "greatness".

But the most skilled boxer of all time? Inarguable. He is.

[PRINCEKOOL]

I don't care how many drove T model Fords they are not competing with F1s , its very simple logic that everything and I mean everything in this world with technology and time has gotten faster stronger and more explosive with better efficiency, it baffles my mind what makes you think Boxing is exempt to that ?

The funny part of all this is the likes of Ennis could KO SRR and what would that do to history, a guy like Ennis as is in a time machine going back 50 yrs fighting the class he has been fighting could fight many times a year and KO all of them, what would 50 KO streak mean in this argument, SRR beat a truckload of very inferior fighter and Ennis could do the same, people get blinded by all the hype and nostalgia losing sight of the actual opposition. SRR was fighting guys with 7 wins and 30 loses in his 197th bout he fought this can twice, in the middle of his career he is fighting guys with 20 losses in 30 fights,, have you ever actually gone through Rays resume and counted the losses of his opponents., no elite top liner could get away with fighting so many cans today.

Its like a racehorse, the 1930s had a super horse in Phar Lap, and since then many would have beat Phar Lap by 10 lengths based solely on the time to run the same distance, this deal is in all sports because the technology has come so far, training and diet is so refined today it's a razer sharp edge measured in milliseconds.

It is not simple logic, and you are now going to understand why 'This will also be my last post in this thread'.

So fighters in modern day, can travel back in time and take all their sport science information, all their supplements, all their strength and conditioning coaches, and complete against fighters from the 1930's? And you are here piping up as if they are 100% factual better fighters.

So these guys can basically quantum leap, while fighters in those past era's still have to use their old methodologies.

This is not how I analyse mythical match ups. Fighters have to complete under the same conditions mate 'Otherwise it is a fair comparison'.

I have stated before that, not many modern day fighters could travel back in time and maintain their form. And they could not do this, because their training methodologies are reliant on modern practices.

Tyson Fury, Canelo Alvarez, Anthony Joshua and many more fighters are all a bi-product of modern sports science.

But fighters like Floyd Mayweather, Joe Calzaghe, Carl Froch, Bernard Hopkins, Lennox Lewis, Mike Tyson. These are the type of fighters who could travel back in time and still maintain their form 'Because their training methodologies where based on old school practices'.

I don't think athletes have gotten better, I don't think they have evolved 'Nobody can claim this to be true 100%'. What has improved is technology, you are correct. But it is not 100% factual that athletes have improved, irrespective of technologies influence on their performance 'Take all of that influence away, and what are we left with?'.

In fact here is one of my past post, which basically blows anything and everything you claim to be 100% factual on this thread completely out of the water.

The heavyweight division is a open class division. And due to this, it is the purest form of competition in the sport of boxing. All other weight divisions are negatively affected by day before weigh in's 'You have potentially 100's upon 100's of fighters, who fight in weight classes which is not their natural weight'. This is a new phenomenon, which in my opinion degrades the competition. Not only in the long term is weight draining, going to negatively impact the condition of a fighter 'But it also creates a illusion'.

Canelo Alvarez in reality going back in history would not be yo yoing up and down in weight. He would have to pick one division, and pretty much stay there.

Tyson Fury is not a genetic marvel; he is 270 + pounds because? He no longer wants to train a certain way. He is not a solid 270 pound. If Tyson Fury was to transport himself back to the 1930's, 40's, 50's 60's and so on. He would not be 270 + pounds, and he would not be the same fighter he is today. From what I can see, he relies on new school training methodologies 'And even still he is not in great condition'. For me this is proof that, these fighters you see today are not automatically better fighters than past generations.

You continue to ignore the differences in environment that athletes from past generations have to compete under, and how these variable's can affect the performances of the athletes. Why are you ignoring this variable? You are ignoring it, because you know it blows your case totally out of the water. This variable, which I have brought up in this thread completely invalidates ANYBODY who speaks as if it is 100% factual that today's athletes are superior to past athletes.

Jesse Owens was running 10.2/3 on mud and cinder tracks, wearing heavy leather spiked shoes, all awhile training and living off food stamps. And may I just add? At those times in America, Jesse Owens was not even recognize as a first class citizen. Mud and Cinder tracks in comparison to today's modern tracks, absorb more energy from the athletes sprinting motion 'There is a decrease in the ground reaction force'.

100m sprinters like hard surfaces; a hard surface is a faster surface. Even going back to the 1980's,all the astro-turf type tracks were slower than the newer tracks that started to get introduced in the 90's. In the 1991 Toyko World Championships, you had sprinters in their 30's breaking world records. Carl Lewis & Linford Christie set faster times, than anything they had produced during the 80's.

'I honestly do not think there are many top sprinters active today, who even with modern sport science and all the best supplements cold duplicate those performances of Jesse Owens if? They were subjected to compete under the exact same conditions'.

Below I am going to leave a video of Asada Powell, running the 100m on grass. Asafa Powell is the most prolific sub-10 100m sprinter of all-times meaning? He has run under sub-10 for the 100m more times, than any other athlete in history 'Total of 97 times'. Powell has a personal record of 9.72 seconds, and he is the former 100m World Record Holder 'And the third faster 100m sprinter of all-times'.

In the video below Asafa Powell is sprinting on grass, wearing modern shoes pretty much at the peak of his career. Powell recorded a time of 10.33 seconds. This race was run at spring time, this is a time of the year sprinters are gearing up for the summer season.

Jesse Owens in 1936 recorded his fastest ever time, of 10.2 seconds. Wearing heavy leather spiked shoes, and the performance he recorded was set on a mud-and cinder track.

Conclusions: It is not 100% factual that fighters or athletes of today are superior to athletes from the past. The reason why it is not 100% factual is because; athletes from different generations were competing in different environments. And due to this, nobody can accurately measure or compare athlete's abilities head to head. But we can speculate, and theorize.

For example: My theory is, that you can only really compare modern day fighters to past fighters if 'Those modern day fighters train with old school methodologies'. Ultimately these are the only modern day fighters who have proven that they could travel back in time, and still be the same fighters. Because they do not rely on protein shakes, supplement pills, and sport science training techniques. Their training predominantly consists of old school training methodologies, which have been developed throughout history from empirical investigation then application.

[edgarg]

I just feel that he's the greatest because he fought and beat the best in his era and never ducked anyone. He silenced the skeptical public by completely shutting down fighters in rematches. He easily beat the supposedly greatest fighter of this generation after years of making excuses and ducking Olympic style ped testing. Retiring undefeated after leaving no doubts is, to me, worthy of being the greatest fighter of all time.

Yes you have a great argument. Because it gives the whole bozing world -except you who must be a 15 year old kid in the first time he was let outside his home- As I'm saying, it gives the whole boxing world thegreratest laugh that ever was.

I can see the hospitals filled up with huys who burst their lungs or stomachs with uncontrollable laughter.


GROW up. Mayeather ranks about 5-600 andn maybe lower.

Everything you "think" about him (if you DO think) is the very opposite of what REALLY happened in his phony Ped filled, failed tests hidden, Lidocaine, illegal IV filled so-called "career".

[Zaroku]

I don't care how many drove T model Fords they are not competing with F1s , its very simple logic that everything and I mean everything in this world with technology and time has gotten faster stronger and more explosive with better efficiency, it baffles my mind what makes you think Boxing is exempt to that ?

The funny part of all this is the likes of Ennis could KO SRR and what would that do to history, a guy like Ennis as is in a time machine going back 50 yrs fighting the class he has been fighting could fight many times a year and KO all of them, what would 50 KO streak mean in this argument, SRR beat a truckload of very inferior fighter and Ennis could do the same, people get blinded by all the hype and nostalgia losing sight of the actual opposition. SRR was fighting guys with 7 wins and 30 loses in his 197th bout he fought this can twice, in the middle of his career he is fighting guys with 20 losses in 30 fights,, have you ever actually gone through Rays resume and counted the losses of his opponents., no elite top liner could get away with fighting so many cans today.

Its like a racehorse, the 1930s had a super horse in Phar Lap, and since then many would have beat Phar Lap by 10 lengths based solely on the time to run the same distance, this deal is in all sports because the technology has come so far, training and diet is so refined today it's a razer sharp edge measured in milliseconds.

mom watching top race hourses 3 ppl crown winners!

[edgarg]

In a sport like boxing, it is difficult to statistically claim this fighter or that fighter as being the greatest of all-time.

In other sports where you can in some ways measure greatness? It is easier to claim who is the greatest.

Carl Lewis is still pretty much the greatest ever track and field athlete of all-time.

Why? Well first sprinter to defend his 100m Olympic title, in 1984 & then 1988. 16 years Olympic Domination of the Long jump.

Carl Lewis won Olympic Gold in the Long Jump at the 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996 Olympics.

Carl Lewis was the second track and field athlete ever to win 4 Olympic Gold Medals at one games. In 1984 he won the 100m, 200m, Long Jump & 4 x 100m Gold.

Carl Lewis was also two time World Champion over the 100m, and Former World Record Holder. He has also won world titles in the 200m.

Carl Lewis, Michael Johnson, Usain Bolt, Jesse Owens, those four for me are above the rest.

In boxing, I don't think it is right to compare era's 'It is not right in any sport, but sometimes it is easier'. I think you have great fighters from each era. Floyd Mayweather Junior, was the greatest fighter of his era 'That is what we know for a fact'.

You cannot compare him to Sugar Ray Robinson as he did not compete in the same environment. How many fights did Robinson go unbeaten, was it 90+ fights unbeaten? The frequency of the fighting back then was intense.

Greatness can also mean more than just winning. It is how you win, the influence you have upon society.

Steve Prefontaine is not a Olympic or World Champion, but he is one of the greatest track and field athletes of all-times.

For me Carl Lewis was so remarkable, because when I saw him winning the 200m one time, he did the second hundred even faster than the first. An amazing accomplishment, a great athlete.

[edgarg]

And what does that even mean, you can pick any fighter in history and I will name a fighter they are supposed to have ducked, anyone, name them? waiting.

Tommy Burns never ducked anyone, White or Black or in between. And he was the fiorst champion to travel the world to show he was the world champion.

[edgarg]

What was the time length between the rematches that Robinson had with Lamotta? I bet you it was a quicker turn over than they have today.

Tyson Fury's resume is also stacked 80-90% with C-D level fighters.

I don't think the level of competition has changed, there was also probably a higher participation level world wide back in those days.

Boxing right up until around the 1960's, was the biggest sport in the world.

Track and Field athletics and Boxing where for a very long time, the only two Global sports in the world.

They are past times. Football, Tennis, Basketball, Rugby, all the other team sports. Only started to become Global, after the 1960's.

In another thread, I have already blown out the water this talk of Athletes being superior today in boxing.

I cannot be bothered repeating it all again, the information is all on the site.

Robinson Fought LaMotta 3 times in 5 months when aged 21. The second and third were 3 weeks apart.

If you look at his record, you'll se that he fought -and beat about 40 guys who were or would be champions. Not uncommon to see 4-5 champions in a ten fight streak.

Don't tell me that a guy as good as Robinson needed to fight duds, to build up his record.

Here's a true story.I saw and head it myself. There was a regular programme on TV where Robinson, Fullmer, LaMotta and sometimes Racky Graziano would sit around and talk boxing and things that happened.

Robinson said one time. "I often used to have to fight 20 rounds...ten for me and ten for my opponent. They other guys laughed and agreed, giving examples of certin fights.

I Mayweather would ever have the nerved (which I KNOW he wouldn't)to get into a ring with Robinson even for sparring in a gym, he'd wet his pants all the time. Robinson would/could half kill him in about 2 rounds max.

There is simply NO COMPARISON. And. except that we're flogging a dead horse, I could give at least 25 examples of guys that would mangle him without half trying.

[edgarg]

My post was truthful. He was slated to fight Margarito before he bought out his contract at Top Rank over a money dispute.

Who ducks Margarito and moves up to 154 to fight a far more dangerous opponent in Oscar De La Hoya?

This was a duck-out fraud that I well remember,. He complained that he wanted a larger purse, that 8 mill wasn't enough. That was as high as Arum could go. Mayflower said he could get more. He bought out his contract and fought Baldomir. His purse was 8 mill and ONE dollar. It was all reported on this site.

This foght was notable for Larry Merchant, not Mayweather . Merchant said, at ringside..."i don't know of any other champion where the audience would be walking out during the main bout. Then the camera picked up a string of people, many of whom were celebrities that he named, all walking out, some making disgusted gestures towards the ring.

Mayweather, one of a kind...

[edgarg]

It’s really pretty tough to match present fighters against past greats. So many unknowns.

Idk. Floyd is great but most fans that have been around awhile will probably strongly disagree with you.

I will just defer to those who claim to know.

Yes he's great...great at picking those over whom he has a big advantage. When he went to lightweight, as a very successful 130lb champ, he very cautiously picked Emanuel Burton/Augustus, because he had nearly as many losses as wins. I think 17 wins and 14-15 losses. He goy quite a surprise there, because Emanuel was actually a great boxer, great defnce, VERY fast hands, loved the hit oand be hit game.

In fact he was able to hit Mayweather far more than any other fighter and DORCED his to fight. If he's had anything but a feather fisted punch, he'd have stretched the illegal IV and Peds expert on the canvas.