Muhammad Ali the most overrated HW ever

[Kzbox]

He is overrated when i have seen him on the best of all time p4p lists and that no heavyweight these days would be able to touch him it’s pretty ludicrous to suggest when he lost to mid tier fighters and was only 6’3 with only 78inch reach.

I think because of his larger than life character/charisma and the causes he stood for he is understandably highly respected and i understand why but it clouds peoples judgement when it comes to actual fighting.

[-Kev-]

Ali transcended boxing. He showed big balls in and outside of the ring. He used his popularity in boxing to do more important things than boxing.

A lot of these boxers, your favorite boxers, who ever you think is better than Ali…they were local, known in a few states, or at best known nationwide.

Ali was international, worldwide. The most oblivious people to sports, know Ali’s name. Ali is a historical figure, an important figure of an era in and out of the ring.

When you mention Ali’s name, you don’t mention him in the same breath as Robinson, Armstrong, or Marciano. You mention him in the same sentence as Elvis Presley, Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King Jr. He’s an icon, he’s famous beyond belief. By far the most famous boxer in history, and right there in fame with athletes like Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, and Jackie Robinson.

[Kzbox]

Ali transcended boxing. He showed big balls in and outside of the ring. He used his popularity in boxing to do more important things than boxing.

A lot of these boxers, your favorite boxers, who ever you think is better than Ali…they were local, known in a few states, or at best known nationwide.

Ali was international, worldwide. The most oblivious people to sports, know Ali’s name. Ali is a historical figure, an important figure of an era in and out of the ring.

When you mention Ali’s name, you don’t mention him in the same breath as Robinson, Armstrong, or Marciano. You mention him in the same sentence as Elvis Presley, Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King Jr. He’s an icon, he’s famous beyond belief. By far the most famous boxer in history, and right there in fame with athletes like Babe Ruth, Michael Jordan, and Jackie Robinson.

That's all well n good also what most people will bring it up when you mention where he stands in heavyweight history all that you mentioned and the not going to the war but none of that has anything to do with boxing ability or if he could beat all other heavyweights which is exactly what i mean with the bias/clouded judgement so yes he is overrated within the realms of boxing itself.

[hugh grant]

Ali had a great resume so he must be great. Maybe he couldve rematched foreman, to show he was even greater than we even thought he was? My only thoughts about Ali is how good a trainer he couldve become?. Could he teach people to fight like him.?
But I'm always open to putting fighters above Ali, if they do what I want them to do.
For instance Fury needs to beat Usyk, Josh, Zhang, Flip, Frank Sanchez. It's that easy.

[Roadblock]

Ali had a great resume so he must be great. Maybe he couldve rematched foreman, to show he was even greater than we even thought he was? My only thoughts about Ali is how good a trainer he couldve become?. Could he teach people to fight like him.?
But I'm always open to putting fighters above Ali, if they do what I want them to do.
For instance Fury needs to beat Usyk, Josh, Zhang, Flip, Frank Sanchez. It's that easy.

I doubt Ali would be a great teacher because his style was based on natural ability moulded around SRR, the best trainers are the guys with basic well taught fundamentals and are good communicators that the student really respects, the reason SRL Whittaker Floyd SRR and Roy Jones etc never seem to create guys anywhere near the ability they had, I think Ali would be the same.

[hugh grant]

I doubt Ali would be a great teacher because his style was based on natural ability moulded around SRR, the best trainers are the guys with basic well taught fundamentals and are good communicators that the student really respects, the reason SRL Whittaker Floyd SRR and Roy Jones etc never seem to create guys anywhere near the ability they had, I think Ali would be the same.

Yeah your right. Ali had abilities unique to himself I doubt he could train and develop champions.
But to be as great as Ali, you need to be brave to take on anyone.

[IronDanHamza]

That's all well n good also what most people will bring it up when you mention where he stands in heavyweight history all that you mentioned and the not going to the war but none of that has anything to do with boxing ability or if he could beat all other heavyweights which is exactly what i mean with the bias/clouded judgement so yes he is overrated within the realms of boxing itself.

I don’t understand how you could have that view when he’s pretty much the only HW in history to beat multiple Top 10-20 ATG’s.

He beat an ATG HW in Liston in 64 to win the title as a massive underdog and then 10 years later beat another ATG HW in Foreman to win the title again as a massive underdog.

What other HW can that be said about? I think zero.

I can’t see why logical way that can be seen as overrated. He has the best HW resume by far, I can’t see how that could even be argued otherwise.

[Kzbox]

I don’t understand how you could have that view when he’s pretty much the only HW in history to beat multiple Top 10-20 ATG’s.

He beat an ATG HW in Liston in 64 to win the title as a massive underdog and then 10 years later beat another ATG HW in Foreman to win the title again as a massive underdog.

What other HW can that be said about? I think zero.

I can’t see why logical way that can be seen as overrated. He has the best HW resume by far, I can’t see how that could even be argued otherwise.

Who did Liston really beat though? A couple of pretty good fighters sure but nobody of real relevance Liston was a man with a reputation that far outweighed his actual resume/skill kind of like the Mike Tyson of his day.

Listen Ali is a legend and an ATG no doubt about it not denying that at all but people go on as if he’s invincible and the best to ever do it and laugh at the notion any other fighter has a chance to beat him its just over the top and simply not true.

Heavyweights are bigger now and the sport has advanced i have watched Ali v Frazier all 3 of them several times and the truth is the fighters are overrated and so are the fights. You just got Frazier doing the same loop over and over again swinging wild swings and Ali using his face to block then hugging it was exciting but hardly a masterpiece of boxing, to me the fights simply don’t match the hype it’s just nostalgia and wishing for days long gone.

[IronDanHamza]

Who did Liston really beat though? A couple of pretty good fighters sure but nobody of real relevance Liston was a man with a reputation that far outweighed his actual resume/skill kind of like the Mike Tyson of his day.

Listen Ali is a legend and an ATG no doubt about it not denying that at all but people go on as if he’s invincible and the best to ever do it and laugh at the notion any other fighter has a chance to beat him its just over the top and simply not true.

Heavyweights are bigger now and the sport has advanced i have watched Ali v Frazier all 3 of them several times and the truth is the fighters are overrated and so are the fights. You just got Frazier doing the same loop over and over again swinging wild swings and Ali using his face to block then hugging it was exciting but hardly a masterpiece of boxing, to me the fights simply don’t match the hype it’s just nostalgia and wishing for days long gone.

Liston beat loads of top quality fighters before he was even champion, then he beat Top 20-25 range ATG HW in Patterson to win the title. Liston is an ATG HW that’s not even a question. Heavily favoured to beat Ali and Ali totally dominated him, same with Foreman 10 years later.

The second paragraph is another debate.

No one’s said Ali’s invincible obviously he’s not as he lost fights in his prime/close to prime years but no one is invincible especially at HW.

I just think making the claim that Ali of all people is overrated is just absurd. His resume is far and beyond the best in HW history. That surely cannot be debated.

[-Kev-]

That's all well n good also what most people will bring it up when you mention where he stands in heavyweight history all that you mentioned and the not going to the war but none of that has anything to do with boxing ability or if he could beat all other heavyweights which is exactly what i mean with the bias/clouded judgement so yes he is overrated within the realms of boxing itself.

Losses aren’t the end of the world when you beat a bunch of Hall of Famers. Just like many actual jobs, burnout happens in boxing. Even at a more rapid and larger scale because of the physicality of the sport and the training required to be in top shape. Mental and physical burnouts can absolutely happen vs lesser opponents when you fight great fighters before that.

With that said, can Ali beat today’s HW’s? That’s not a fair question to ask. Ali was a big, tall HW in his time. In fact, given the average size of a HW during Ali’s era, Ali was like what Tyson Fury is in today’s HW era. A really tall, heavy man (for the time), who moved way better than even the smaller HW’s in his era. One of the special things about Ali’s in-ring abilities wasn’t just that he moved and jabbed very well, and had a different style than people were accustomed to seeing in a HW. It was that Ali was doing all this while being bigger and taller than most of his opponents. And he did it with power.

But to put him up against this era of fighters who are much bigger and taller than him, by even more than the advantage he had back in the day, is unfair.