Is AJ the most bizarre boxer since Oliver McCall?

[billeau2]

I was thinking that AJ was the most robotic looking black fighter I have seen. Of course Usyk was making him look robotic but still.

Some of the soviet fighters are a lot slicker these days. And skilled slicksters, not those hack british ones like saunders and calzaghe that are sloppy and just look good in there with bums. But you got Pirog, Usyk, Loma and Bivol. Basically high speed internet has been around 20 years and these guys were teenagers when they were watching tapes and video of american slicksters and adopting their style.

Great insight... same with Basketball. All these guys in Eastern Europe watched the NBA, and before that guys would watch the ABA which had less structure and lots of raw talent (Dr J most notebly) and lo and behold, there are many guys in the NBA from these areas now.

These guys got access to information, tapes, and watched fights, one of the very best ways to learn about the sport, if you have a base knowledge.

[BangEM]

jeez this AJ dude is more complicated than he looks, i mean hes managed to piss of both black and white people at the same time, hes too black for white people & too white for black people, too timid for black people & not shaping up to what white people expect of a so called tough top boxer, i guess when u lose u lose more than just that 0, it can take your soul and your identity too

He’s the one who’s making things more complicated than it’s and the insecurities are affecting him in the ring as well. People will like him and accept him for who he’s if he could be himself. Bruno in his prime was a white geezer in black skin and people accepted him for who he’s and he was loved.

[BangEM]

Very Interesting analysis... I have a unique perspective here in the States having grown up, a minority (A white guy) in East Harlem, most of the kids I grew up with were Puerto Rican, or Black. I say this because, something one from a hood like East Harlem cannot help noticing is the lack of brutality you often see in British fighters. Not in the ring per se...but the way they speak and conduct themselves. I always get a feeling like there is a fragility there... again, this is perception, not reality. I also must say that Whyte and Chisora, seem the exception regarding this perception. It is probably why I have always liked those two...

There is no question in my mind that however one frames the issue with AJ, he would benefit immeasuraby being in a boxing gym, with a trainer like Don Turner, in America. Lewis benefitted from this for many of the very same reasons. When I think of AJ in my schoolyard days, he would have to be a killer the way he walks around lol... He just presents as soft... lol. Not so much for Chisora or Whyte... different mentality entirely.

I don't claim to know what it is about AJ... But whatever you are picking up on your radar, I am picking up on as well. Killer instinct. Killer instinct is the reason IMO Klitsko was never a GOAT. It was something Lewis seemes to artificially develop later in his career (the Michael Grant fight for example) that elevated him. AJ would benefit from it immeasurably IMO.

I think guys like Bruno, Audley Harrison and AJ are guys who were predominantly raised around white people tend to have a different level of toughness compared to guys like Chisora, Whyte, Haye and Eubank. The only outlier is Nigel Benn.

[Toffee]

Very Interesting analysis... I have a unique perspective here in the States having grown up, a minority (A white guy) in East Harlem, most of the kids I grew up with were Puerto Rican, or Black. I say this because, something one from a hood like East Harlem cannot help noticing is the lack of brutality you often see in British fighters. Not in the ring per se...but the way they speak and conduct themselves. I always get a feeling like there is a fragility there... again, this is perception, not reality. I also must say that Whyte and Chisora, seem the exception regarding this perception. It is probably why I have always liked those two...

Without getting into too many generalisations, I just don't think in the UK we buy into the idea of a 'tough guy' image being worth anything.

If Joshua was snarling in pressers he'd be laughed at in the UK. In the US (again, I know I'm generalising) it seems like that's a prerequisite to being taken seriously. Joshua has been pretty vicious in the ring. It's the only place it matters.

In the same way, Lewis seemed to be written off in the US on account of his accent and generally sound behaviour. Then he put a pretty sadistic beatdown on a renowned 'tough guy' in Tyson and perceptions changed... a bit.

As with anything, the outcome defines good and bad. If Joshua is a nice guy and wins, we don't even talk about it.

The crux of the issue is that Joshua lost. He lost because he got soundly beaten by a better boxer.

Now he's got to turn that around. And the transformation he has to make will be much more difficult than just sounding a bit tougher in interviews.

[Sparked_26]

I think AJ acts relaxed and a bit odd because he isn't relaxed. It is an act I feel. If you seem relaxed then nobody knows any different. Or at least mostly.

In reality you've got a dude fighting in front 60k people plus regularly against top opponents and not being particularly confident in either his ability to last 12 rounds or possibly even to hold big shots. There is some mental gymnastics going on there big time.

I don't think it takes much emotional intelligence to see that AJ is a nervous dude who has a lot of self doubt but for me that makes him pretty impressive. By and large he remains composed and puts on that facade of being self-assured and under the amount of scrutiny and pressure he is under it is something.

I do also think he got into that boxing match with Usyk and thought you know I can do this without really sensing where the fight was heading. I think he was obsessed with remaining composed and not being panicked that he found it impossible switch gears. He's not gonna throw lots of punches that wont land. He was always looking to get out before he threw anything because he was worried about getting caught. Maybe he really thought Usyk would slow and he could then catch him. He did well in 5 and 6.

Basically there's no 'f.uck it' in him is there?

To put it on Usyk there has to be an element of f.uck it because he's comparatively lightning quick. AJ had that early in his career when he was raw but it has slowly been refined out of him. He's got to stay together.

AJ is a much better boxer than he was against Wlad but he probably isn't the same fighter.

I cant remember who said the AJ who fought for the British title would have done better against Usyķ. He would have

[Sparked_26]

Conversely to AJ you have fighters like Usyk and Fury that literally train in their underpants. You just dont doubt their level of comfort when in the ring or in the gym.

That said AJ must be worth over £100 mill. How bloody well has he done?

[billeau2]

Without getting into too many generalisations, I just don't think in the UK we buy into the idea of a 'tough guy' image being worth anything.

If Joshua was snarling in pressers he'd be laughed at in the UK. In the US (again, I know I'm generalising) it seems like that's a prerequisite to being taken seriously. Joshua has been pretty vicious in the ring. It's the only place it matters.

In the same way, Lewis seemed to be written off in the US on account of his accent and generally sound behaviour. Then he put a pretty sadistic beatdown on a renowned 'tough guy' in Tyson and perceptions changed... a bit.

As with anything, the outcome defines good and bad. If Joshua is a nice guy and wins, we don't even talk about it.

The crux of the issue is that Joshua lost. He lost because he got soundly beaten by a better boxer.

Now he's got to turn that around. And the transformation he has to make will be much more difficult than just sounding a bit tougher in interviews.

I don't know the level of brutality in the UK, but as I got older and got to compare lifestyles and such... My neighborhood was really brutal and dangerous. It never occured to me...I knew no other life style. Fighters who are used to that might have an advantage... It gives one another gear, what I always thought of as crazy gear lol...

[BangEM]

I don't know the level of brutality in the UK, but as I got older and got to compare lifestyles and such... My neighborhood was really brutal and dangerous. It never occured to me...I knew no other life style. Fighters who are used to that might have an advantage... It gives one another gear, what I always thought of as crazy gear lol...

Areas where Dillian Whyte, Haye and Eubank Sr are from used to be very rough (still a bit rough) and there were estates in those areas the police don’t bother going to back in the day. Mugging, shootings, stabbings, etc., daily.

Those places aren’t as bad today because they’ve knocked down a lot of the estates and gentrified them. But they still have a reputation and can get sticky out there sometimes.

[billeau2]

Areas where Dillian Whyte, Haye and Eubank Sr are from used to be very rough (still a bit rough) and there were estates in those areas the police don’t bother going to back in the day. Mugging, shootings, stabbings, etc., daily.

Those places aren’t as bad today because they’ve knocked down a lot of the estates and gentrified them. But they still have a reputation and can get sticky out there sometimes.

Its social conditioning... Put me in a damn park that is one square mile and if I don't have a compass I get lost... might as well be in cootersville. But in a hood? its like the senses sharpen, know where to go, what to avoid, how to act, etc. One aspect of this is just what people get used to when it comes to conflict. In these rough areas, people get very used to violence and it doesn't bother them so much.

Philosophically speaking, how much does fighting from a young age, versus training to be a fighter, each, compliments teach other? How does each in turn affect a person? We know that brutality, discrimination, conflict and having little means, have created a crucible that formed our greatest fighters. Even beyond muggings and such... it has to do with parenting... I have only on rare occasion given my two boys a swat on the rump, never a sustained beating. But my dad hit me lol, and his dad hit him, and many boxers had violent parents by today's standards. This affects someone as well I think. I didn't have it so bad, but there were kids I knew who when they got into a scrap, better give a good account, or they would catch a worse beating at home. I think that is horrid. I do think growing up that way makes people mean and conditioned to aproach fighting as something that is a joy...

Does AJ lack the rough edges he needs? Can he compensate? Is there a level of training that supercedes nature in nurture? Ironickly enough, AJ's opponent probably has a similar situation as AJ... Usyk does not have the edge of a fighter like Rahman, Chisora... Yet he manages quite well.

[GrandpaBernard]

Its social conditioning... Put me in a damn park that is one square mile and if I don't have a compass I get lost... might as well be in cootersville. But in a hood? its like the senses sharpen, know where to go, what to avoid, how to act, etc. One aspect of this is just what people get used to when it comes to conflict. In these rough areas, people get very used to violence and it doesn't bother them so much.

Philosophically speaking, how much does fighting from a young age, versus training to be a fighter, each, compliments teach other? How does each in turn affect a person? We know that brutality, discrimination, conflict and having little means, have created a crucible that formed our greatest fighters. Even beyond muggings and such... it has to do with parenting... I have only on rare occasion given my two boys a swat on the rump, never a sustained beating. But my dad hit me lol, and his dad hit him, and many boxers had violent parents by today's standards. This affects someone as well I think. I didn't have it so bad, but there were kids I knew who when they got into a scrap, better give a good account, or they would catch a worse beating at home. I think that is horrid. I do think growing up that way makes people mean and conditioned to aproach fighting as something that is a joy...

Does AJ lack the rough edges he needs? Can he compensate? Is there a level of training that supercedes nature in nurture? Ironickly enough, AJ's opponent probably has a similar situation as AJ... Usyk does not have the edge of a fighter like Rahman, Chisora... Yet he manages quite well.

Would we get more generic white American boxers if whites started beating their children’s azzes like ********** do?