People say Tank is not a 3 division champ due to the WBA"regular" title

[Citizen Koba]

I think they’ll probably upgrade Dalakian soon, he’s already made 4 defences, plus Luis Concepcion is the interim champion and with him being Panamanian it’s only a matter of time before he gets given the full and “prestigious” regular WBA belt.

Maybe they’ll just order Dalakian vs Concepcion but that seems far too logical for the WBA.

Well like I said earlier it seems the WBA are well on their way to resolving this whole pile of **** by simply giving Super titles to everyone... yay! Reduced mandatory requirements! Fight who you like! Anyone can play since the only requirement is that Gilberto thinks you're 'exceptional'!

The good ol' 'World' Title actually becomes somewhere in betwen an interim title and useful buffer between the guy at Super and any unwanted threats coming up through the ranks! Everyone's a winner!

[Bob Haymon]

Comparing GGG's record defenses to Hopkins was ridiculous and should have been called out more than it was but there was also not as many WBA regular belts back when he first won the title because PBC hadn't started yet. PBC watered down the belt more than it already was by having every televised event having a WBA title involved.

[-Kev-]

GGG was also a fraudulent champion until he won another title other than the WBA which was the WBC title vs Rubio. The WBA also went against their own rules and made GGG the “Super” champion for his fight vs Geale.

DAZN: “The World Boxing Association, the oldest of the four major sanctioning bodies, was formed in 1962. The WBA has two championships: a "Regular" and a "Super" titleholder.

If a fighter has a WBA title, but then wins either the IBF, WBC or WBO belt, they get moved up to WBA "Super" champion. The "Regular" title then becomes vacant for two contenders to compete for.”

Regardless, yes, GGG was only 8-0-1 in legit title defenses. Starting with Geale and ending with Canelo II.

Before the Geale fight, GGG made 10 defenses with the fraudulent WBA regular title and that worthless IBO title.

While I am part of the group who says Tank is not a 3 weight champion, I do know what you mean that a lot of fans and journalists don’t apply the same criticism across the board.

[Caxcan]

GGG's stretch with the regular WBA belt should not be considered world title fights and the truth is no one considered him a true world champ at the time. Those fights being added to his total defenses was just revisionism for marketing purposes after the fact, HOWEVER, he did go on to legitimize his championship status in the division which is the criticism with Tank who is being hyped as a 3 division champ when 2 of them are regular status. If he beat Taylor obviously in the division that criticism would go away. Even if he beat Prograis or Ramirez he would silence a lot of critics.

[andocom]

I try not to waste too much time trying to rationalize some of these sanctioning body actions, we all know they are blatantly corrupt, in the sense that they will do what is best for themselves and the promoters who pay them which at the end of the day is the same thing. They follow their own rules when it suits, they'll change them when they want, or break their own rules if they can't be bothered, with no repercussions.

Now imagine a world where they set clear rules and followed them, its not too hard, that is basically the IBF and what is the result? Its delegitimized by promoters because it can't be controlled and gamed, so they enforce their mandatories, but their mandatories are often **** so people complain about that, and why are the mandos bad, because promoters won't chase the IBF ranking because it can't be gamed.

Now there are some overly egregious cases, i.e. Franchise champion, Lopez being undisputed while Haney is also champion depending on which press conference they are at, but if you think of these sanctioning bodies as the promotional companies they are, it makes more sense.

[RJJ-94-02=GOAT]

Well like I said earlier it seems the WBA are well on their way to resolving this whole pile of **** by simply giving Super titles to everyone... yay! Reduced mandatory requirements! Fight who you like! Anyone can play since the only requirement is that Gilberto thinks you're 'exceptional'!

The good ol' 'World' Title actually becomes somewhere in betwen an interim title and useful buffer between the guy at Super and any unwanted threats coming up through the ranks! Everyone's a winner!

Dug this out before…

https://www.espn.com/blog/dan-rafael...mber-of-titles

“WBA working to reduce number of titles”. January 2016.

5 years later and I’d say they have around double the titles they had in 2016.

[Citizen Koba]

Dug this out before…

https://www.espn.com/blog/dan-rafael...mber-of-titles

“WBA working to reduce number of titles”. January 2016.

5 years later and I’d say they have around double the titles they had in 2016.

Wait, wait... I had a little fun with one of Gilberto's declarations on a different thread that died and I'm a little too proud of it to let it go to waste...

WBA Prez Admits It's Not Profitable To Reduce The Number of Titles

The president of the World Boxing Association, Gilberto Mendoza, admits that there is not much money in reducing the number of titles that his organization sanctions, but also states that he couldn't give two ****s for credibility because boxing fans will accept almost anything

In the last few years, the vast majority of fans have become tired of the countless world champions in every weight class. Most casual fans have found it impossible to distinguish one title from the other - especially when a sanctioning body has more than one champion in a single weight division.

Among the four major sanctioning bodies, the WBA and WBC have become notorious for having multiple champions per weight class.

While the criticisms have not stopped against the WBA over their path of having numerous champions per weight class - Mendoza says the incoming money from promoters to approve various title fights has continued to pour in - with promoters indicating, in their requests, that a title will benefit their fighters and their televised event.

While Mendoza has spoken to rival sanctioning bodies about staging division-wide unification tournaments - the issue that comes up, is that certain promoters and/or champions are not willing to pay enough.

“They tell me that there must be only one champion, but they don't give me cold, hard cash. They tell me that [the titles] are devalued, but when we talk about money they just don't give me enough of it. When we talk about making a champion versus champion fight - not everyone is willing to reach deeply into their pockets," Mendoza told ESPN Deportes.

"And on the other hand... a boxer with a title does better, a boxer who gets himself a title fight pays me more, a network that broadcasts a title fight pays more, a promoter who has a title fight pays more. The same fan [who complains], if he knows there is a title at stake, they are more attentive [to the fight]."

According to the WBA's rankings, there are 39 champions in 17 divisions, including super champions, regular and interim champions.

https://www.boxingscene.com/wba-prez...titles--150217

Disclaimer for the avoidance of litigation: Edited for comedic effect.... these are not Mr Menodoza's actual words.

[Citizen Koba]

GGG was also a fraudulent champion until he won another title other than the WBA which was the WBC title vs Rubio. The WBA also went against their own rules and made GGG the “Super” champion for his fight vs Geale.

DAZN: “The World Boxing Association, the oldest of the four major sanctioning bodies, was formed in 1962. The WBA has two championships: a "Regular" and a "Super" titleholder.

If a fighter has a WBA title, but then wins either the IBF, WBC or WBO belt, they get moved up to WBA "Super" champion. The "Regular" title then becomes vacant for two contenders to compete for.”

Regardless, yes, GGG was only 8-0-1 in legit title defenses. Starting with Geale and ending with Canelo II.

Before the Geale fight, GGG made 10 defenses with the fraudulent WBA regular title and that worthless IBO title.

While I am part of the group who says Tank is not a 3 weight champion, I do know what you mean that a lot of fans and journalists don’t apply the same criticism across the board.

Actually the WBA changed it's rule for Super champions in 2009/10 so that Champions with 5 defenses* could be declared 'Super' Champions... this is reportedly the rule that they used (and allegedly put in place due to bribery) to elevate Sturm - who also wasn't unified - so he didn't have to face Golovkin as a mandatory in 2010. Under this very same rule the WBA should have elevated Golovkin in 2012 after his 5th defense of the World title, which also co-incides neatly with when Geale dropped the 'Super' title to fight Mundine leaving Golovkin as the WBAs sole remaining world Champion.

So essentially the WBA did GGG dirty twice, firstly by denying him the title shot he'd earned in 2010 (and arguably I'd say delegitimising both the WBA World and the WBA 'Super' in the process) by changing their own rules to elevate Sturm, and secondly by NOT elevating in Golovkin in late 2012 under the exact same rule they'd use to elevate Sturm out of harm's way just 2 years earlier.

Anyways... many boxers have been fuuxxed over by unfair rulings by the sanctioning bodies so GGG ain't special in that regard, and whichever way I square it I try to stick to the principle that there can be only one Champion per sanctioning org in each weight class at any given time and regardless of the Bullchit surrounding his elevation Sturm was the 'Super Champ' from the period 2010 - 2012 and had fought more legitimate opposition whilst Golovkin was the secondary titlist for that period and had fought basically no-one.

However once the Super title become vacant (and simultaneously GGG reached 5 defenses) I personally believe it's legitimate to consider Golovkin the WBAs primary champion at 160... and further there's plenty of precedent for such elevations in other divisions amongst named fighters (in that when the Super is vacated the regular Champion becomes the 'man'). -Badou Jack for instance was universally regarded as WBA Champ at 168 after Ward vacated as was Lara in '16 after Floyd retired despite neither being 'Super' champion.. There's numerous other examples too. Do we de-recognise Badou and Lara or do we recognise Golovkin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_champions

Anyways way I cut it GGG has 14 defenses of the WBAs primary title, 5 as the sole WBA World Champion after Geale vacated and a further 9 (including the Draw against Canelo) as the Super Champion.



* Actually it's technically now 5 defenses for all divisions except Middleweights who are required to make 10... a rule brought in presumably after Sturms elevation and before GGGs which should tell you all you need to know about the WBAs credibility.

[kafkod]

I'm saying it's the belt both held.

If you want to look at it that way, it's also the same belt that Monzon and Hagler held before the WBA started inventing multiple other belts to pull the wool over fan's eyes and rake in more money from sanctioning fees.

What I'm saying is, ignore what the WBA call those multiple belts and look instead at who holds them and why.

[kafkod]

Actually the WBA changed it's rule for Super champions in 2009/10 so that Champions with 5 defenses* could be declared 'Super' Champions... this is reportedly the rule that they used (and allegedly put in place due to bribery) to elevate Sturm - who also wasn't unified - so he didn't have to face Golovkin as a mandatory in 2010. Under this very same rule the WBA should have elevated Golovkin in 2012 after his 5th defense of the World title, which also co-incides neatly with when Geale dropped the 'Super' title to fight Mundine leaving Golovkin as the WBAs sole remaining world Champion.

So essentially the WBA did GGG dirty twice, firstly by denying him the title shot he'd earned in 2010 (and arguably I'd say delegitimising both the WBA World and the WBA 'Super' in the process) by changing their own rules to elevate Sturm, and secondly by NOT elevating in Golovkin in late 2012 under the exact same rule they'd use to elevate Sturm out of harm's way just 2 years earlier.

Anyways... many boxers have been fuuxxed over by unfair rulings by the sanctioning bodies so GGG ain't special in that regard, and whichever way I square it I try to stick to the principle that there can be only one Champion per sanctioning org in each weight class at any given time and regardless of the Bullchit surrounding his elevation Sturm was the 'Super Champ' from the period 2010 - 2012 and had fought more legitimate opposition whilst Golovkin was the secondary titlist for that period and had fought basically no-one.

However once the Super title become vacant (and simultaneously GGG reached 5 defenses) I personally believe it's legitimate to consider Golovkin the WBAs primary champion at 160... and further there's plenty of precedent for such elevations in other divisions amongst named fighters (in that when the Super is vacated the regular Champion becomes the 'man'). -Badou Jack for instance was universally regarded as WBA Champ at 168 after Ward vacated as was Lara in '16 after Floyd retired despite neither being 'Super' champion.. There's numerous other examples too. Do we de-recognise Badou and Lara or do we recognise Golovkin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orld_champions

Anyways way I cut it GGG has 14 defenses of the WBAs primary title, 5 as the sole WBA World Champion after Geale vacated and a further 9 (including the Draw against Canelo) as the Super Champion.



* Actually it's technically now 5 defenses for all divisions except Middleweights who are required to make 10... a rule brought in presumably after Sturms elevation and before GGGs which should tell you all you need to know about the WBAs credibility.

What you're saying here makes sense on its own terms, but those terms were dictated by the WBA who were acting in bad faith when they introduced the rules you're basing your reasoning on.

Here's how I look at it - according to the rules existing at the time, GGG legitimately earned a shot at the full WBA title - for want of a better term - and he was denied that shot when new rules were introduced for no other reason than to deny him his shot.