Comments Thread For: Frank Warren Reacts To John Fury's Anger Over Wilder Trilogy Fight

[BlackR0bbb]

Imagine if judges had to order fights and say 'hey, Crawford and Spence, fight each other, Golovkin must fight Charlo, Lopez must fight Haney. That would be something.

Which other fights should be forced, by the sanctioning bodies? Charlo vs Tszyu, Canelo vs Benavidez, and Haney vs R.Garcia.

Anyway, Fury has to beat Wilder again, and Joshua, whomever he fights next, has to win in order for Fury-Joshua to happen.

Bivol vs. Beterbiev, Jermall vs. Andrade, Lopez vs. Haney, Crawford vs. Spence

[Toffee]

“In terms of this reported December cancellation clause, that is a question for Top Rank, who contracted with Wilder’s promoters as it was a US fight.”


Well that's a lock. Hearn and John Fury alleged it, Frank tried to waffle over the question in his first interview, now he's avoiding the question and throwing TR under the bus. If it wasn't there he would have denied it, so you can safely assume that it was there and that they could have cancelled the contract.

Arum either played everyone or he's incompetent.

Tyson Fury's response has been to get on with the fight, so it's fair to say that he was in on this. They played everyone.

They never wanted the fight. They were never signing the fight. They didn't even terminate the Wilder contract when they had the chance.

That, my friends, is a duck. We'll never see Fury fight Joshua. Joshua is all wrong for Fury and Fury knows it.

[davefromvancouv]

“In terms of this reported December cancellation clause, that is a question for Top Rank, who contracted with Wilder’s promoters as it was a US fight.”


Well that's a lock. Hearn and John Fury alleged it, Frank tried to waffle over the question in his first interview, now he's avoiding the question and throwing TR under the bus. If it wasn't there he would have denied it, so you can safely assume that it was there and that they could have cancelled the contract.

Arum either played everyone or he's incompetent.

Tyson Fury's response has been to get on with the fight, so it's fair to say that he was in on this. They played everyone.

They never wanted the fight. They were never signing the fight. They didn't even terminate the Wilder contract when they had the chance.

That, my friends, is a duck. We'll never see Fury fight Joshua. Joshua is all wrong for Fury and Fury knows it.

Terminating the contract was never an option because Wilder would have made them pay through the nose. They believed they would win arbitration and Fury would be able to get away from Wilder and prevent him from getting his belt back. They were wrong.

But nobody is afraid of Joshua after what Ruiz did to him and especially after what he did in the Ruiz rematch. Everything with Fury was agreed, it was all 50/50 and they were anticipating a favorable decision without having to pay a substantial penalty. They just didn't expect fair justice.

Hearn.
Joshua.
Arum.
Warren.
Fury.

All tried to cheat Wilder. And he's going to take it out on Fury and Joshua. Wilder is coming for blood.

[Toffee]

Terminating the contract was never an option because Wilder would have made them pay through the nose. They believed they would win arbitration and Fury would be able to get away from Wilder and prevent him from getting his belt back. They were wrong.

But nobody is afraid of Joshua after what Ruiz did to him and especially after what he did in the Ruiz rematch. Everything with Fury was agreed, it was all 50/50 and they were anticipating a favorable decision without having to pay a substantial penalty. They just didn't expect fair justice.

Hearn.
Joshua.
Arum.
Warren.
Fury.

All tried to cheat Wilder. And he's going to take it out on Fury and Joshua. Wilder is coming for blood.

You seem to be stuck in this "you can't exit a contract" loop".

You're wrong. Every single contract ever signed up to will provide for it in certain circumstances.

It's now practically confirmed that there was an opportunity for Team Fury to terminate the contract and they didn't take it. Instead they pretended a Joshua fight was on the cards then claimed to be shocked by the arbitration ruling.

I don't think Fury is afraid of Joshua. But I do think he's ducked him.

He could have got rid of Wilder by either fighting him at the end of 2020 or by terminating the contract. He'd now be in a position to sign up to fight Joshua.

But he didn't do any of those things. And now he's signed up to fight Wilder for a fraction of what he could have earned, for no more championships, and no additional legacy.

That's a duck.

Team Joshua, in the meantime, took care of a mandatory in front of about 1,000 fans, negotiated with the WBO, and presented an offer that even Fury himself acknowledged was real and acceptable. They are the actions of a guy who wants the fight.

[davefromvancouv]

You seem to be stuck in this "you can't exit a contract" loop".

You're wrong. Every single contract ever signed up to will provide for it in certain circumstances.

It's now practically confirmed that there was an opportunity for Team Fury to terminate the contract and they didn't take it. Instead they pretended a Joshua fight was on the cards then claimed to be shocked by the arbitration ruling.

I don't think Fury is afraid of Joshua. But I do think he's ducked him.

He could have got rid of Wilder by either fighting him at the end of 2020 or by terminating the contract. He'd now be in a position to sign up to fight Joshua.

But he didn't do any of those things. And now he's signed up to fight Wilder for a fraction of what he could have earned, for no more championships, and no additional legacy.

That's a duck.

Team Joshua, in the meantime, took care of a mandatory in front of about 1,000 fans, negotiated with the WBO, and presented an offer that even Fury himself acknowledged was real and acceptable. They are the actions of a guy who wants the fight.

You seem to think you can just terminate a contract without consequences. Which is why it was never an option. It would have cost them substantially more time and money to do so, which is why contracts tend to be binding. So they followed the existing contract which called for arbitration in cases of dispute, and lost.

So no, Fury didn't duck Joshua. He just thought he would win arbitration, freeze Wilder out (without any fuss from the mainstream media), and simply sign for the August 14th fight. That didn't happen.

And now Wilder is back where he should be. Fighting Fury, beating him to a pulp, then fighting the Joshua-Usyk winner for undisputed in December.

[Toffee]

You seem to think you can just terminate a contract without consequences. Which is why it was never an option. It would have cost them substantially more time and money to do so, which is why contracts tend to be binding. So they followed the existing contract which called for arbitration in cases of dispute, and lost.

So no, Fury didn't duck Joshua. He just thought he would win arbitration, freeze Wilder out (without any fuss from the mainstream media), and simply sign for the August 14th fight. That didn't happen.

And now Wilder is back where he should be. Fighting Fury, beating him to a pulp, then fighting the Joshua-Usyk winner for undisputed in December.

This is becoming pointless. If you understand nothing about large value contracts then how can you keep on offering such an adamant (and incorrect) view?

All contracts have termination clauses whether a force majeure clause exists or not. Contracts are not binding in the way you think they are. Fury is not a slave, there would be reasonable options for termination.

What Fury instead did was to breach contract. That's a completely different thing. That's when mediators, arbitrators and judges get involved.

[andocom]

This is becoming pointless. If you understand nothing about large value contracts then how can you keep on offering such an adamant (and incorrect) view?

All contracts have termination clauses whether a force majeure clause exists or not. Contracts are not binding in the way you think they are. Fury is not a slave, there would be reasonable options for termination.

What Fury instead did was to breach contract. That's a completely different thing. That's when mediators, arbitrators and judges get involved.

Agreed, if there is one thing that has become painfully obvious to me on this forum it is that a lot of people have simply no idea of how business works, like at all.

Without seeing the contracts and judgement we can't know for sure, but what has been reported is: There was a rematch clause with a tight time limit to be activated, it wasn't activated within that time limit, Arum could have exited the rematch clause in December but failed to do so, the arbitrator relied in part at least with this failure to notify Wilder's team in handing down his decision.

So it appears this shouldn't have been a matter of breaching the rematch clause, there was a prescribed process when and how it could be extinguished, Arum for whatever reason did not follow this process, and here we are.

Its like the "yoU caN'T terMinaTe a CoNtRacT" crowd have never actually read a proper contract before, and noticed grounds for termination, remedies for improper termination, processes for termination, venues for dispute resolution etc. No no its a contract, you can't terminate a contract.

[davefromvancouv]

This is becoming pointless. If you understand nothing about large value contracts then how can you keep on offering such an adamant (and incorrect) view?

All contracts have termination clauses whether a force majeure clause exists or not. Contracts are not binding in the way you think they are. Fury is not a slave, there would be reasonable options for termination.

What Fury instead did was to breach contract. That's a completely different thing. That's when mediators, arbitrators and judges get involved.

Who said anything about Fury being slave? He signed a contract and refused to honor it. Unless he retired, he would have to pay significant damages to Wilder. He didn't want to do that. He didn't want to give him a cent. So he went ahead with the arbitration, believing he would win.

What you're trying to do is to push a false narrative that all he had to do was terminate the contract and fight Joshua. He didn't do that, so he ducked Joshua.

I'm saying that couldn't be further from the truth. Hearn shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. But he thought he could join Fury and Arum and they could all freeze Wilder out. But it backfired and they all fell flat on their faces. So now Hearn is trying to deflect blame onto Arum, talking about a fantasy: terminating the Wilder contact. It's Arum's fault.

No. It's Hearn's fault for stringing everybody along, making everybody believe it would happen. In two weeks...

[Toffee]

Who said anything about Fury being slave? He signed a contract and refused to honor it. Unless he retired, he would have to pay significant damages to Wilder. He didn't want to do that. He didn't want to give him a cent. So he went ahead with the arbitration, believing he would win.

Correct. Fury tried to breach contract by claiming it was invalid. It wasn't invalid and Wilder rightly got the decision.

What you're trying to do is to push a false narrative that all he had to do was terminate the contract and fight Joshua. He didn't do that, so he ducked Joshua.

I'm saying that couldn't be further from the truth. Hearn shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place. But he thought he could join Fury and Arum and they could all freeze Wilder out. But it backfired and they all fell flat on their faces. So now Hearn is trying to deflect blame onto Arum, talking about a fantasy: terminating the Wilder contact. It's Arum's fault.

No. It's Hearn's fault for stringing everybody along, making everybody believe it would happen. In two weeks...

You were so nearly on the right path until your hatred for Eddie blinded your reasoning.

The contract with Wilder may not have been invalid, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have legitimately been terminated. Contracts can be terminated for lots of reasons. One of those reasons may be that the contract has become frustrated, ie other events have made it impossible to deliver in the way it was intended. That might be the way that Bob (who, don't forget, is a lawyer!) could have legally terminated the deal.

They didn't legally terminate the deal, and the arbitrator agreed that they hadn't legally terminated the deal.

An arbitrator isn't deciding between right and wrong. They're interpreting the contract, the actions of the participants, taking into account common law and reaching a just decision.

And of course you think it's all Hearn's fault?!!

[davefromvancouv]

Correct. Fury tried to breach contract by claiming it was invalid. It wasn't invalid and Wilder rightly got the decision.




You were so nearly on the right path until your hatred for Eddie blinded your reasoning.

The contract with Wilder may not have been invalid, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have legitimately been terminated. Contracts can be terminated for lots of reasons. One of those reasons may be that the contract has become frustrated, ie other events have made it impossible to deliver in the way it was intended. That might be the way that Bob (who, don't forget, is a lawyer!) could have legally terminated the deal.

They didn't legally terminate the deal, and the arbitrator agreed that they hadn't legally terminated the deal.

An arbitrator isn't deciding between right and wrong. They're interpreting the contract, the actions of the participants, taking into account common law and reaching a just decision.

And of course you think it's all Hearn's fault?!!

No hate for Hearn. But I believe he was trying to deny Wilder his rightful chance at redemption and I'm glad he failed. A dirty deed done dirt cheap.

So ..

About the contract termination...

It's kinda hard to terminate a contract with one fighter when you publicly admit that you are available to fight another fighter (e.g. Fury wanting to fight December 5th, Fury wanting to fight Joshua). So termination would have come at a huge cost. Which means that it's unrealistic to even consider it, it was never an option...

So the only reasonable option was to follow the existing contract and do arbitration. Hearn knew this. But never cautioned that it could be issue. Then you'll say, Arum assured him. Then I'll say, give me break...