For those who thinks Manny fights Past Prime fighters...Come to school

[LilGizmo562]

2nd Barrera fight was supposed to take place a year and a half earlier than it actually did for the 130lb wbc title. Just before the 2nd Barrera fight he had lost his title in controversial fashion to JMM where you could argue Barrera won the fight.

And as far as DLH goes....signs of age....YES. Signs of "slipping"?? Absolutely not. The DLH that fought both forbes and pacquiao was lazy, unmotivated and undertrained.

Forbes fight was supposed to be at 150. DLH came in at 152 anyway.

DLH fired Valero as a sparring partner for being an annoying southpaw that actually gave him a mouse under his eye.

People keep saying DLH was dehydrated this...zombie that for the Pacquiao fight but watch it again and you will see that DLH never gasses out at any point during the match. Even when Nachos pulls the plug in the corner you never see DLH breathing hard. He was actually in great shape cardiovascularly. Just never worked to the point during training camp where he could actually adapt to Pacquiao's speed and awkwardness.

You are right, because he didn't throw anything (exaggerating) how can you gas out when you don't throw anything, why wasn't he able to throw anything because he wasn't able to move the way he had to, to win the fight, laziness might have something to do with it, but he was showing signs of hims slipping in the Mayweather fight and Forbes for the fact that he tired half way (which I think past prime fighters do, gas out faster then they used to) and wasn't able to "pull the trigger" and continue his attack and got hit WAY too much for someone still in their prime to allow, unless you are Chavez or Margarito, DLH never blocked punches with his face, so him getting hit too much is a sign of his reflexes not working like they used to, another sign of a being passed your prime.

[LilGizmo562]

No one can really know when their prime is. A prime fighter doesnt lose, when he does, he's automatically not primed. When Frazier lost to foreman he automatically lost his prime status, but he went in that fight after beating Ali. so its easy to assume his prime was beating Ali, and not losing to Foreman.

So to say Barrera wasnt primed when he lost to Manny is whatever. Barrera didnt lose in the past 3 years prior to fighting Manny and didnt lose until another 3 years after. Youre automatically discrediting Manny a legit and solid win just to diss him, which again happens alot on this board. Makes no sense to me..

I never take credit away from Manny beating Barrera, it was a legit win, but you must also take into consideration that he had lost to junior jones, morales, beat hamed and then lost to Manny, he was showing signs of him slipping. Now I don't think Frazier was past his prime when he lost to Foreman, I just think Foreman was too big and strong for Frazier. Manny is in his prime now, if he were to lose to Cotto, again not passed it, just Cotto was too big and too strong, but say Manny goes back down to JWW and fights Paulie and beats him but struggles with him and gets hit too much, then I will say he is showing signs of being past his prime, know what I mean?

[shadeyfizzle]

all 3 Larios, Morales and DLH had those problems before stepping in the ring with Manny meaning they were past their best.

Then what would that Say about Shane Mosley? DLH knocked out Ricardo Mayorga in 6rds in 2006. It takes Shane Mosley 12 rounds to knock out Ricardo Mayorga and come literally within seconds of losing to that same Ricardo Mayorga as he was up on the cards on all 3 cards had he been saved by the bell.

A fight thats definitely a showcase of Mosley's age catching up to him. But then he follows that up with his best performance in years by dominating and knocking out Margarito in 6.

[LilGizmo562]

Then what would that Say about Shane Mosley? DLH knocked out Ricardo Mayorga in 6rds in 2006. It takes Shane Mosley 12 rounds to knock out Ricardo Mayorga and come literally within seconds of losing to that same Ricardo Mayorga as he was up on the cards on all 3 cards had he been saved by the bell.

A fight thats definitely a showcase of Mosley's age catching up to him. But then he follows that up with his best performance in years by dominating and knocking out Margarito in 6.

He showed signs of slipping that is true, but you have to remember the Mayorga that fought DLH was a sloppy brawler, while the one that fought Mosley was boxing more, Mosley being the smaller man (Mayorga outweighed him by more then 10 pounds if I remember) struggles, he always has struggled with bigger men and his original game plan didn't work.

Now with Tony, I honestly believed he has cheated in previous fights and Mosley exposed that, not only that but Tony himself said it best, he studied him very well, he knew what to do when Tony did a certain thing and he capitalized on that.

Is Mosley prime? I don't think so, he has shown signs of him slipping but is still a good fighter, so was Morales, but the it too was obvious he was going down hill during his first fight with Manny and the lost to Zaheer and going back down to 130 didn't help him at all.

[PACBOY]

Maybe, because if you think Morales, Larios and DLH were prime when they fought Manny, then I honestly don't think you know what prime is, Morales went into the Manny fight coming off a lose to Barrera and he beat him, he went into the 2nd fight 1-2 and the 3rd 1-3. Larios just got KTFO by Vazquez and moved up in weight to fight him and lose. DLH went in more weight drain then anything but he was passed his prime, not shot, but passed his best days.

I never said being young=prime, prime example is Manny gets KTFO young and is KTFO of people now...Manny is in his prime now, because he is improving and showing his abilities very well. I see being passed your prime when you show signs of age, reflexes aren't what they used to and you get tired faster then before...all 3 Larios, Morales and DLH had those problems before stepping in the ring with Manny meaning they were past their best.

Prime can vary. Also DLH just fought MAyweather and lost to a split Decision. He had fight left. DLH is a weird floppy subject...you never know with this guy. Morales wasnt shot before their 1st fight. He beat Pac and two fights later Pac stopped him. the 3rd was a rubber match that shouldnt have happen but there was unfinished buisness. I didnt even mention Larios because i never saw that great fighter in him. hes good but not nothing to wright home about

[shadeyfizzle]

You are right, because he didn't throw anything (exaggerating) how can you gas out when you don't throw anything, why wasn't he able to throw anything because he wasn't able to move the way he had to, to win the fight, laziness might have something to do with it, but he was showing signs of hims slipping in the Mayweather fight and Forbes for the fact that he tired half way (which I think past prime fighters do, gas out faster then they used to) and wasn't able to "pull the trigger" and continue his attack and got hit WAY too much for someone still in their prime to allow, unless you are Chavez or Margarito, DLH never blocked punches with his face, so him getting hit too much is a sign of his reflexes not working like they used to, another sign of a being passed your prime.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=manny-pacquiao-oscar-de-la-hoya-compubox

Sorry buddy. Delahoya was throwing just as much if not more than Pacquiao for the first few rounds. It wasnt until the 6th round when Pacquiao turned it up a notch that the fight truly slipped away from Oscar. Only difference is that Oscar whiffed with pretty much everything.

Once again i agree DLH did show signs of aging with forbes but his loss to pacquiao cannot be attributed to weight drainage because he was actually in great shape. It cannot be attributed to age because Pacquiao never did anything really creative in the ring that night.

Jab, straight, turn
straight, straight, jab, turn
straight, jab, straight, turn

Oscar just had absolutely 0 defense against the straight left because he had horrible sparring partners that did absolutely nothing to help him prepare for it. The one guy that would have someone helped him...he fired.

[shogunn]

I never take credit away from Manny beating Barrera, it was a legit win, but you must also take into consideration that he had lost to junior jones, morales, beat hamed and then lost to Manny, he was showing signs of him slipping. Now I don't think Frazier was past his prime when he lost to Foreman, I just think Foreman was too big and strong for Frazier. Manny is in his prime now, if he were to lose to Cotto, again not passed it, just Cotto was too big and too strong, but say Manny goes back down to JWW and fights Paulie and beats him but struggles with him and gets hit too much, then I will say he is showing signs of being past his prime, know what I mean?

I do take that in consideration but then what? You have to remember Barrera didnt lose 3 years before losing to Manny, and 3 Years after. Im not going to hold that against Manny for the only person to beat Barrera in a 6 year timeframe.

At this point, youre holding Manny to incredibly high standards for not beating someone in their super prime, but when was he given the opportunity? He wouldve had to beat someone undefeated who has never lost a round and no such fighter existed at his time. Someone who is close is Mayweather, but he's been off for 2 years and he's cherrypicking a lightweight.

[LilGizmo562]

Prime can vary. Also DLH just fought MAyweather and lost to a split Decision. He had fight left. DLH is a weird floppy subject...you never know with this guy. Morales wasnt shot before their 1st fight. He beat Pac and two fights later Pac stopped him. the 3rd was a rubber match that shouldnt have happen but there was unfinished buisness. I didnt even mention Larios because i never saw that great fighter in him. hes good but not nothing to wright home about

But the Mayweather fight was at 154 which he could still be competitive in and Forbes was 152, I never said Morales was shot in their first fight, he was shot by their 3rd fight, I agree it was unfinished business, but still unnecessary and Larios, same here, but some people mention him as if he is a GREAT name in Manny's resume, just like Solis, whom even though was undefeated, still wasn't great in my eyes.

[shadeyfizzle]

I do take that in consideration but then what? You have to remember Barrera didnt lose 3 years before losing to Manny, and 3 Years after. Im not going to hold that against Manny for the only person to beat Barrera in a 6 year timeframe.

At this point, youre holding Manny to incredibly high standards for not beating someone in their super prime, but when was he given the opportunity? He wouldve had to beat someone undefeated who has never lost a round and no such fighter existed at his time. Someone who is close is Mayweather, but he's been off for 2 years and he's cherrypicking a lightweight.

And you can bet your ass if either Pacquiao or Marquez beat Mayweather it'll blamed on that 2year layoff and/or brittle hands that may or may not have broke during the fight.

[Motofan]

The constant **** of Bad Boy is worth cracking open another cold one. Carry on. Im sure you can dig yourself a hole faster then that, you know, being so close to the ground and all.