I've drawn the conclusion that JMM is REALLY the P4P Number 1.

[Doc Holliday]

ok, on entire careers Manny should still be ahead.

Even? ok instead of him being ahead, how are they even? Manny has a better resume (even arguably within the past year) and he has a win over JMM.

Alot of the P4P rankings are based on resumes, head to head match Manny won it.

I'm repeating myself over and over, but what wins make JMM better than Mannys? shouldnt wins and losses be accounted in a P4P ranking? It should be simple really... I still dont understand where youre coming from. Your argument is theyre even P4P since they last met, which doesnt make sense. Since P4P rankings are NOT based only from 1 year.

If youre claiming it only goes back to 1 year then youre argument in them being even in rankings is wrong.

Even more recently JMM has had more losses that he hasnt avenged. (Chris John, Manny).

Ok man, I'll try to explain it one last time. If you go back to my previous posts in this thread, and all the ones addressed to you, from the beginning I've said that most lb 4 lb lists have Manny Pacquiao as #1, but that I disagree in my personal opinion. So in my personal opinion, I've explained why some of the wins on Manny's resume don't carry that much weight (third Morales win, DLH win.) I've also said I personally thought JMM should have the wins over Pac, but that I would call it even to give Pac the benefit of the doubt, and try to simplify. But if it doesn't make sense, I'll go ahead and throw that out.

So now I have JMM ahead of Pac because I felt he beat Pacquiao in both their matches. Remember I've been talking about my personal opinion since the beginning (and have said so in most of the posts in this thread), and you're the one who replied to my post telling me why you don't agree with my assessment (while contradicting yourself left and right.)

So after they last met I still personally believe that JMM's wins have been better than Pac's, but that I'm impressed with Pac's win over Hatton. So at this point it is my personal opinion that JMM and Pac are even and we need to have a rubber match to settle it. Not hard to understand at all.

[Doc Holliday]

At first I was kind of sour toward JMM's notion that he got robbed against Pacquiao. But the guy has really grown on me by trying to out do Pacquiao where ring accomplishments are concerned. And I think Marquez had the momentum in the last round of the second fight and Pacquiao looked tired to me and ready to give in, regardless of who I scored the fight for. The only guy that's missing on his resume is at 135 is Nate Campell and we know the story there. Campell had a chance to fight JMM late last year, but Campell wanted Casamayor instead before Casamayor lost his championship to JMM and that's understandable. And Nacho said that Marquez would be interested in fighting Campell after the Diaz victory and Nate blew it by not making the weight at 135.

This is what I've been talking about when I say I go by JMM and Pac's accomplishments since they last met. JMM has been outdoing Pac with every fight. So Pac did well by beating Hatton, and JMM is trying to do him one better by taking on the former lb 4 lb #1 and the man who knocked Hatton out first. How is that hard to understand?

[KennyWeldon]

i think we all know jmm is the p4p king! not manny.

[shogunn]

Ok man, I'll try to explain it one last time. If you go back to my previous posts in this thread, and all the ones addressed to you, from the beginning I've said that most lb 4 lb lists have Manny Pacquiao as #1, but that I disagree in my personal opinion. So in my personal opinion, I've explained why some of the wins on Manny's resume don't carry that much weight (third Morales win, DLH win.) I've also said I personally thought JMM should have the wins over Pac, but that I would call it even to give Pac the benefit of the doubt, and try to simplify. But if it doesn't make sense, I'll go ahead and throw that out.

So now I have JMM ahead of Pac because I felt he beat Pacquiao in both their matches. Remember I've been talking about my personal opinion since the beginning (and have said so in most of the posts in this thread), and you're the one who replied to my post telling me why you don't agree with my assessment (while contradicting yourself left and right.)

So after they last met I still personally believe that JMM's wins have been better than Pac's, but that I'm impressed with Pac's win over Hatton. So at this point it is my personal opinion that JMM and Pac are even and we need to have a rubber match to settle it. Not hard to understand at all.

well that's what I was trying to understand. The only reason youre putting JMM over Manny is because you think he won both fights. Again, thats just your opinion.

But in resume's, it seems you only put JMMs last 2 wins over Mannys entire resume which includes better fighters and better wins.

so to sum it up, JMM is even with Manny because in your opinion he beat him twice, and only his last 2 wins were better.

No disrespect but I think thats a very poor way of ranking fighters in a P4P list. There's just more to it than a years work.

[Doc Holliday]

well that's what I was trying to understand. The only reason youre putting JMM over Manny is because you think he won both fights. Again, thats just your opinion.

But in resume's, it seems you only put JMMs last 2 wins over Mannys entire resume which includes better fighters and better wins.

so to sum it up, JMM is even with Manny because in your opinion he beat him twice, and only his last 2 wins were better.

No disrespect but I think thats a very poor way of ranking fighters in a P4P list. There's just more to it than a years work.

That's not the only reason at all. And I don't put JMM's resume over Pac's. Pac does have impressive names on his resume but I've already explained why some of those wins are not as impressive as they look on paper. So I've been trying to simplify and call them even since they last met for two reasons: 1)To avoid wasting time going into little details and 2)To avoid the same old tired arguments about how Pac dropped JMM 4X, JMM has more rounds, etc. But it didn't save me any time at all. I think I'll do like Dave Rado and refer people to some of my previous posts from now on.

In any case it all boils down to this: Most experts would agree that JMM and Pac are virtually equal, and I think all boxing fans would like to see that third fight. So barring any interference from Bob Arum and any unreasonable demands on the purse split from team Pac, we can hopefully get this fight next year and put this argument to rest once and for all.

[shogunn]

That's not the only reason at all. And I don't put JMM's resume over Pac's. Pac does have impressive names on his resume but I've already explained why some of those wins are not as impressive as they look on paper. So I've been trying to simplify and call them even since they last met for two reasons: 1)To avoid wasting time going into little details and 2)To avoid the same old tired arguments about how Pac dropped JMM 4X, JMM has more rounds, etc. But it didn't save me any time at all. I think I'll do like Dave Rado and refer people to some of my previous posts from now on.

In any case it all boils down to this: Most experts would agree that JMM and Pac are virtually equal, and I think all boxing fans would like to see that third fight. So barring any interference from Bob Arum and any unreasonable demands on the purse split from team Pac, we can hopefully get this fight next year and put this argument to rest once and for all.

welllll.....there you go. Manny should be P4P over JMM, as almost every credible source out there agrees.

[Doc Holliday]

welllll.....there you go. Manny should be P4P over JMM, as almost every credible source out there agrees.

By the same token, I don't put Manny's over JMM's. I'll call it even, as many credible boxing experts would agree is a fair assessment of JMM and Pac at this point.

[shogunn]

By the same token, I don't put Manny's over JMM's. I'll call it even, as many credible boxing experts would agree is a fair assessment of JMM and Pac at this point.

not really, which is why they put Manny at #1, not even with JMM.

Anyway, thats your opinion that their resumes are even. I think Manny is still ahead. He even moved up to higher weight classes.


Hatton, ODLH, nonshot Barrera, Morales 2x, JMM.

Over

Juan Diaz, Casamayor, shot Barrera, Rocky Juarez, Loss to Manny, Loss to Chris John.

If you think JMM's resume is better than Mannys than have at it.

[salsalero]

i think we all know jmm is the p4p king! not manny.

yeah you're right and the earth is flat!

[Doc Holliday]

not really, which is why they put Manny at #1, not even with JMM.

Anyway, thats your opinion that their resumes are even. I think Manny is still ahead. He even moved up to higher weight classes.


Hatton, ODLH, nonshot Barrera, Morales 2x, JMM.

Over

Juan Diaz, Casamayor, shot Barrera, Rocky Juarez, Loss to Manny, Loss to Chris John.

If you think JMM's resume is better than Mannys than have at it.

Wow, even though I've explained it in clear coherent English, you either still don't get it, or are too stubborn to admit it. It's no use trying to talk sense to someone like you.