No Offense to PAC Fans, but...

[THE REED]

I think one big point that you're missing is that majority of casual fans don't even know all the different of weight classes, let alone a few lb. differences in catch-weight.

How much credit will the winners get in terms of the scenarios you pointed out? TONS OF CREDIT from a casual fan's perspective.

Now let me ask you something, what do you think is the ratio of casual/hardcore fans who buy the tickets and PPV's?

This thread isn't about what will sell more. I specifically stated in my thread:

"I just think as far as boxing purists, there are more important things.

Like a unified champion in the division."

[-Swizzy-]

I kind of feel he is disrupting the welterweight and JR. WW division...

For starters... Mosley-Cotto SHOULD be the very next fight...

You have the two biggest guys, the two champions of the division, and neither are looking at any other welterweights right now..

Then you have PAC who has the Lineal title at 140... and he isn't looking at any other 140lbers right now, either..

Mosley Cotto are the two guys are at the very top of their division, their last fight was very close... and I think Mosley-Cotto should be happening next, but neither of them can take their eyes off Pacman. I understand why, I do... but I feel like they should be focused on becoming the undisputed champion. How good can you feel as champion... when there are two other champions in your own weightclass... I feel like that is unfinished business.

I also feel like, if Pac feels he can beat welters, then he should fight them at welter... If they are too big, then stay at JR WW... until you feel you can handle another move up in weight.

Catchweights may make for interesting fights, but they do not help us sort out either division. In a time of boxing when every weight class has 3-4 different champions, these catch weight fights aren't helping matters.

Also, neither fighter will get full credit for a win... If you beat Mosley or Cotto under 147lbs, how much credit do you expect to get?

Just to end all that, it's not that I wouldn't enjoy a catchweight between Pac-Mosley or Pac-Cotto... I definitely would, I would buy both fights, and I would enjoy both fights, and I know they would BOTH be exciting... I just think as far as boxing purists, there are more important things.

Like a unified champion in the division.

P.s. I am assuming about a 50% agree/disagree here... because I know a lot of people prefer these catchweights... and it's understandable.

well, I agree and disagree. I agree that an active lineal champion at 140 should be crowned BUT, would you rather see Bradley-Hatton have fought for that title or Pac-Hatton fight for that title and Pac never to fight at that weight again. I would go with the ladder.

The same goes for the welterweight division. As much as I want to see that division get sorted out with a cotto-mosley fight, I would just as much want to see a cotto-pac fight.

I'm on both sides of this but I'm more on the 'disagree' side of it cuz I would rather see pac fight those guys even if he is holding up those divisions.

[BMWM3P]

Let's just be honest.

How much credit do either of these winners get?

Mosley/Cotto beat PAC?
What will they Say?


Pac beats Cotto/Mosley UNDER 147lbs?
What will they Say?


I would rather see two top ww champions fight and have a recognized champion in the WW division, rather than hear "Well Pac was too small" or "Cotto was weight drained".

This fight is not about credit, right now Cotto vs Pac would be the biggest fight you could make in boxing. You got to look past the credit and just focus on how big Pac has become, if Cotto beats Pac then he'll get a lot of Manny's spotlight on him. Making the WW division even better than it is now.

And when Cotto beat Mosley the first time which was clear win. A lot of the same **** happened Mosley is old, shot, past his prime and all the other usual bull****.

Credit is not as important anymore it's just about money,excitement and popularity. Cotto vs Mosley would be good for the hardcore boxing fan, Cotto vs Pac would be great for all boxing fans. Right now the fight that has to be made is what's better for boxing and that fight Cotto vs Pac.

[THE REED]

Who is "they?" The only people who actually care about catch weights or being too small or too big are hardcore boxing fans. To the majority of fans and casual fans, none of that **** matters. Have you ever talked to a non-boxing junky who casually follows the sport?? They don't know **** about catch weights. If Pacman beats the crap out of Cotto and/or Mosley at 144, it's because Pacman is the reincarnation of bruce lee. If cotto and/or mosley beat pacman, it's because they are bad ass mofo's.

It's true, ask any casual fan about the Pacman/Oscar fight. You wont hear the words "weight drained" or anything of the sort.

Well, you are defending ignorance.

I am defending realistic reasons and scenarios.


Just because "they" didn't know Oscar was weight-drained.. does that make it right?'

I understand these are HIGH dollar fights. I have never said otherwise. What I am saying in THIS thread... is that it is disrupting unified divisions.

[SuckaPunch]

This thread isn't about what will sell more. I specifically stated in my thread:

"I just think as far as boxing purists, there are more important things.

Like a unified champion in the division."

Fair enough, I apologize for missing the fine print.

However, still the bottomline is Pac/Mosley/Cotto couldn't give a damn about those damn purists so your thread isn't really worth arguing about (from Pac/Mosley/Cotto's standpoint)

You have a good day now.

[Ishy Aytan]

Who is "they?" The only people who actually care about catch weights or being too small or too big are hardcore boxing fans. To the majority of fans and casual fans, none of that **** matters. Have you ever talked to a non-boxing junky who casually follows the sport?? They don't know **** about catch weights. If Pacman beats the crap out of Cotto and/or Mosley at 144, it's because Pacman is the reincarnation of bruce lee. If cotto and/or mosley beat pacman, it's because they are bad ass mofo's.

It's true, ask any casual fan about the Pacman/Oscar fight. You wont hear the words "weight drained" or anything of the sort.

Who gives a **** about what the casual fans think? Seriously. The boxing purists are the ones that carry the sport along. The thousands of boxing purists that are members of this website are the ones that carry the sport along.

If it was up to the casual fans, we'd proberly see some ***ed up ****** fights being made.

Stop talking about casual fans, they have no relevance to what Reed is saying. We as boxing purists would rather see a fighter fight a guy at his best weight rather than him fighting him at a weight which will give him a disadvantage.

[THE REED]

well, I agree and disagree. I agree that an active lineal champion at 140 should be crowned BUT, would you rather see Bradley-Hatton have fought for that title or Pac-Hatton fight for that title and Pac never to fight at that weight again. I would go with the ladder.

The same goes for the welterweight division. As much as I want to see that division get sorted out with a cotto-mosley fight, I would just as much want to see a cotto-pac fight.

I'm on both sides of this but I'm more on the 'disagree' side of it cuz I would rather see pac fight those guys even if he is holding up those divisions.

And I have also said, that it isn't that I DONT want to see the fight... I know it would be exciting.

My problem is, at a catchweight.. NO PARTY gets full credit.

Meanwhile you have two CROWNED champions in a division, and NEITHER crown wants to fight anyone else in their division because of this.

This fight is not about credit, right now Cotto vs Pac would be the biggest fight you could make in boxing. You got to look past the credit and just focus on how big Pac has become, if Cotto beats Pac then he'll get a lot of Manny's spotlight on him. Making the WW division even better than it is now.

And when Cotto beat Mosley the first time which was clear win. A lot of the same **** happened Mosley is old, shot, past his prime and all the other usual bull****.

Credit is not as important anymore it's just about money,excitement and popularity. Cotto vs Mosley would be good for the hardcore boxing fan, Cotto vs Pac would be great for all boxing fans. Right now the fight that has to be made is what's better for boxing and that fight Cotto vs Pac.

Well I see your point, but I think Floyd-Pac is bigger... but that is moot.

You could say people talked **** about Mosley being past prime.. what undoes that? His total dismantling of Antonio Margarito... Solidifying himself as STILL a viable threat and champion... The difference in the rematch, then the first fight are two THINGS.... ONE, Cotto had a HORRIBLE loss to the same guy Mosley then RAN OVER... and TWO, they are BOTH title holders now...

Credit isn't important? I disagree.

I just feel that Pac beating Mosley or Cotto under 147lbs, is a good win... but it isn't great. If you feel you can beat them. Beat them at their best.

[solo20]

dont wast your time only the real boxing fans would agree with you the nut huggers are trying to turn this thread into something that is not. these nutjobs think is ok for one fighter to be weightdrain while the other is at there best and dont understand you want to be called the best you got to fight that fighter at there best weight

[Uturn]

I kind of feel he is disrupting the welterweight and JR. WW division...

For starters... Mosley-Cotto SHOULD be the very next fight...

You have the two biggest guys, the two champions of the division, and neither are looking at any other welterweights right now..

Then you have PAC who has the Lineal title at 140... and he isn't looking at any other 140lbers right now, either..

Mosley Cotto are the two guys are at the very top of their division, their last fight was very close... and I think Mosley-Cotto should be happening next, but neither of them can take their eyes off Pacman. I understand why, I do... but I feel like they should be focused on becoming the undisputed champion. How good can you feel as champion... when there are two other champions in your own weightclass... I feel like that is unfinished business.

I also feel like, if Pac feels he can beat welters, then he should fight them at welter... If they are too big, then stay at JR WW... until you feel you can handle another move up in weight.

Catchweights may make for interesting fights, but they do not help us sort out either division. In a time of boxing when every weight class has 3-4 different champions, these catch weight fights aren't helping matters.

Also, neither fighter will get full credit for a win... If you beat Mosley or Cotto under 147lbs, how much credit do you expect to get?

Just to end all that, it's not that I wouldn't enjoy a catchweight between Pac-Mosley or Pac-Cotto... I definitely would, I would buy both fights, and I would enjoy both fights, and I know they would BOTH be exciting... I just think as far as boxing purists, there are more important things.

Like a unified champion in the division.

P.s. I am assuming about a 50% agree/disagree here... because I know a lot of people prefer these catchweights... and it's understandable.

I agree with alot of this. It's getting kinda ****** right now with the Pac stuff, all these catchweights being made! Cotto Vs Mosley is the most appealing fight at WW fight out there right now. It seems as though Pac is getting in the way (not that im blaming him for this) he should stay at JR WW untill he thinks he can move up to take on the bigboys. Mosley and Cotto going down in weight to fight Pac puts me off and there would be to many excuses after the fight about them being weight drained and the rest. Saying that i dont think Cotto/Mosley going down in weight is a good idea, they should stay put & there is plenty of good fights to be made at WW rather than focusing on Pac just for a big payday.

[Clint650]

Pac has great competition @135-140. i remember Roach being concerned about Guzman, but whatever team Pac wants to do, i guess. they're just looking for one more big payday, mega fight to call it quits. at this point, my respect for Pac is getting shorter by the day. Even Hatton, as big of a draw he was ON HIS OWN, never forced a WW to meet him halfway. Instead he took a risk and fought Collazo on short notice @ 147 anyways.