Armstrong vs. Pacquiao: Catchweights Make Alltime P4P Comparisons a Moot Point

[-EX-]

Alot of those guys on those 100+ wins are the modern day equivalent of sparring partners and simply there to get paid taking a beating and keep the fighter sharp.

But plenty are not. Armstrong beat Barney Ross...he wasn't a sparring partner lol.

[aether]

LOL. Was my post so great that you had to reply to it twice?

don't recall anyone besides yourself who compare floyd to armstrong. your a very special guy.

[Mary Jane]

don't recall anyone besides yourself who compare floyd to armstrong. your a very special guy.

You just compared Armstrong to Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao.

[shadeyfizzle]

But plenty are not. Armstrong beat Barney Ross...he wasn't a sparring partner lol.

Yes definitely. All I am saying is there's too much emphasis on oldtime fighters having 100+ wins when alot of those wins are record padders. Equivalent of modern day sparring partners. A necessity in those days because of the lack of modern day training tools and equipment and lack of ability to fly over quality sparring partners and lack of communication to negotiate quality fights promptly.

[El Jesus]

Yes definitely. All I am saying is there's too much emphasis on oldtime fighters having 100+ wins when alot of those wins are record padders. Equivalent of modern day sparring partners. A necessity in those days because of the lack of modern day training tools and equipment and lack of ability to fly over quality sparring partners and lack of communication to negotiate quality fights promptly.

There is emphasis on it because of the toughness it took to do it in the first place, not to mention 15 round fights. Its more than just "lack of training tools and equipment" thats bull****, there were gyms on every corner especially if you lived in the big city, back then you didint need much more than what you need now, not to mention there was still a thriving amatuer program during that time also, and the olympics was an even bigger spectacle then, how the *** do you come to that conclusion unless its to gas up pac by ripping how it used to be? Thats the only conclusion i see, you do this all the time when it comes to historical aspects of the game, knowledge you REALLY need to brush up on.

[shadeyfizzle]

There is emphasis on it because of the toughness it took to do it in the first place, not to mention 15 round fights. Its more than just "lack of training tools and equipment" thats bull****, there were gyms on every corner especially if you lived in the big city, back then you didint need much more than what you need now, not to mention there was still a thriving amatuer program during that time also, and the olympics was an even bigger spectacle then, how the *** do you come to that conclusion unless its to gas up pac by ripping how it used to be? Thats the only conclusion i see, you do this all the time when it comes to historical aspects of the game, knowledge you REALLY need to brush up on.

Noone is taking away the toughness it took to go 15 rd fights. But y'all make it seem like the majority of these guys's careers were all hard fought 15 rd fights when in reality those were moderate. Guys like Armstrong, Duran, JCC were 70-80 fights deep in their career and taking on guys that were making their pro debut or had losing records on a regular basis still. There's no logical reason behind that other than a quick money fight with very little to no risk which would be unnecessary by today's standards.

[aether]

You just compared Armstrong to Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao.

a lot of boxing analysts are saying that he is today's version of henry armstrong.

[WhoreUs]

barney ross weighed in the low 140's when armstrong challenged him for the 147 belt.

ceferino garcia weighed in the low 150's when armstrong challenged him for the 160 belt.

different era.

back then guys who were at at 147 weighed around 141-147 in the ring.

guys at 160 weighed around 148-160 in the ring.

nowadays lightweights are the size of the old school era's middleweights and this era's middleweights are bigger than the heavyweights of long ago.

[aether]

Noone is taking away the toughness it took to go 15 rd fights. But y'all make it seem like the majority of these guys's careers were all hard fought 15 rd fights when in reality those were moderate. Guys like Armstrong, Duran, JCC were 70-80 fights deep in their career and taking on guys that were making their pro debut or had losing records on a regular basis still. There's no logical reason behind that other than a quick money fight with very little to no risk which would be unnecessary by today's standards.

you make an excellent point there.

[shadeyfizzle]

you make an excellent point there.

It is what it is. Manny Pacquiao is no Henry Armstrong. But I can definitely see how the 2 guys parallel each other. Different eras, different results. But the guys who dont feel that Pacquiao is in the same league as Armstrong are overlooking alot of things.

Like if it werent for sanctioning body politics then Pacquiao would hold belts in 3 weightclasses all at once today. Being the sole champion in 2 of them and having a W over the real champion in the 3rd weightclass.

Or that Oldschool fighters would not have as many fights as they do if they were privy to the same priveleges top level fighters of today are. Such as being broken off percentages of ppv sales, media days, endorsement deals, etc etc.

After a certain point fighters of a certain level today wouldnt be able to take on fighters that are 2-15.